Need help with Pax

[MissLab]

We have two Lab mix dogs. Palo is 4 and Pax is 18 months. We have no problems with Palo, she is just great. Pax is ok except in the car. He barks if anyone walks past, leaps up and down and will not behave. It really is scarey sounding as he is a big dog. He has jumped on Palo twice now and hurt her, he gets so carried away. It sweems to us as if he thinks he has to "guard" the car and everyone in it. Some people lok scared and jump and others look bemused but its not nice. He only does it if the car is stationary or parked. It has got now we dont even want to take him out in the car. He started this about 5 months ago for no reason. Maybe a "guarding" instinct kicking in? He does not do it in the house or outside, in fact he is very good, it is just in the car.

We tried a car harness but he got terribly tangled in it - got a leg caught tight and screamed blue murder. We didnt think it was possible to get tangled in a car harness but he did and it has happened more than once.
We have not got room for a crate otherwise he would be in a car crate.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

Michelle

[k9mania]

I have one dog who does not bark anywhere but in the car. You have to know that it can be guarding or fear. You could put him in the car in the driveway without going or on the street and reinforce him when he does not bark. Yelling at him is like barking at him. It takes patience and time to curb a behavior that becomes self-rewarding. Doe he know the command "leave it?"

[Labman]

The key to most behavior problems is approaching things using the dog's natural instincts. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/ For more on being top dog, see http://www.dogbreedinfo.com./topdogrules.htm

If you are in charge, then he doesn't have to worry about all those people.

[MissLab]

That is what is so puzzling. He accepts us as being "leaders" in the house, when out off lead, on lead, he just gets totally wound up in the car. Yes he does know the comman d"leave it" but does not accept it in the car:mad:
We know about raising your voice to them so never do that.

You have me thinking - when we first got him as a young pup he used to bark when in the car going or otherwise. Very ear piercing. Very hard not to yell but we ignored him. I "solved" it by bringing him into the front of the car onto the front seat where he settled down immediately. Of course now he is too big for the front seat.

We did contact a trainer who said they would not worry about a dog guarding the car - not much help.

We will have a look at the books recommended.

Thank you

Michelle

[Jr_K9_Expert]

I don't think this is a hierarchy related problem.

Now that you mention the whole puppy situation, it makes a bit better sense. Your pup regarded sitting in the front seat as a reward, and thus he connected his barking to being rewarded. The yelling is another form of reward, it gets him attention and it makes him think that you are joining in on the uproar. There lies your problem.

Things you can do to solve it? Well thats a tough one! Depends on the dog really. Your dog is being protective of your car, something he thinks is correct to do because associations during puppyhood have proved it so. Your job is to retrain, to teach that barking in the car is actually bad. You have to be clever in what you do to create this negative association, because you want the dog to relate the reprimand to the action not to you. I'll try to list a couple ways you can create this negative association:

- Try using a spray bottle (or a little spray gun)

- Citronella Spray (seek advice about how to use it)

- Training disks or anything that makes a LOUD and STARTLING noise (sometimes a tin can with pennies inside works too).


When he starts barking use any of these deterants, and simultaneously say NO. If your dog reacts by backing off, surprised, and give you a chance to settle him, thenkeep using this deterant. After saying NO, order him to be quiet. Use one word to command this, if you have already trained him to be quiet with a specific work, keep using that one. If he stays quiet for a while, then reward him with a treat. If he continues barking then start from the beginning.

Hope that helps! Hehehe I would call the trainer back and tell him he was no help; gaurding in itself isn't a big problem, but when its to the extent of your pooch its a serious health hazard, not to mention you could incur some costly damages to your car.:eek:

[MissLab]

Hi Steven
Thanks for your informative reply. Just one wee thing, we never raised our voices to Pax. Might have felt like it at times but never did. We know that it is totally counter productive. My OH is of the opinion that Pax will stop all of his own, I am not so sure of that:D I will look into getting a spray and see if that helps. I also plan to do some more one on one training in the car with him. Leave Palo and my OH at home:D

Michelle

[Jr_K9_Expert]

Hi Steven
Thanks for your informative reply. Just one wee thing, we never raised our voices to Pax. Might have felt like it at times but never did. We know that it is totally counter productive. My OH is of the opinion that Pax will stop all of his own, I am not so sure of that:D I will look into getting a spray and see if that helps. I also plan to do some more one on one training in the car with him. Leave Palo and my OH at home:D

Michelle

Oh I must've misunderstood that part. Sorry.

And no. Problems like these don't just dissapate, it definitely isn't a phase he's going through. This was a behavior that started when the dog was young and will only get worse if not treated, or until the owner actually act but not after something really bad happens. This is what some people say about aggressive dogs (not saying your's is) that "it will grow out of it" and they keep saying that until someone gets bit.

Just keep up what you are doing, and try out different things.

[lucysnewmum]

am thinking that as well as guarding the car he is probably excited too as care = trip to somewhere fun! have you tried desensitising exercises with him? for example, first teach him the settle or quiet command.

when he is laying quietly at home say "good settle" or "good quiet" and reward him with a fuss or treat. repeat this several times over several sessions.

when you think he has got the message send him to his bed and ask him to "settle". as soon as he lays down quietly reward him and walk away. repeat this exercise several times more. once he has got the hang of it in the house then try it in the car in the driveway.

you need to work up slowly to him being in the car and settling with the door closed. eventually you can try driving a short distance asking him to settle every time he starts acting up although by this stage he should be conditioned to staying quiet in the car. if he relapses return to the earlier stage of training and reinforce the commands until he fully understands....

i had a similar problem with lucy who got extremely excited in the car and howled all the way to the woods where we walk...it took quite a while to teach her that getting excited was unacceptable but now she just lays in the back of the car watching where we are going out of the window.

good luck... if you really struggle find another trainer who knows what they are talking about and get some help. this will not cure itself and any trainer who knows their stuff will have lots of ideas for you to try to help you

[6dogmom]

Conner also gets loud in the car. His is more fear based but I just subject him to as much as possible. It started with school car lines, those are a feat cause there are loud kids jumping around, teachers, people walking back and forth.
It's important to work on a quiet command. Work on it at home first, if he is mostly quiet at home you can teach him to speak, then teach quiet. Once he has the hang of that take him somewhere there is activity. Like a busy gas station. Put the leash on and every time he barks correct and say quiet, once you get one or two seconds of quiet give a treat. One he can do that then expect a little more like three or four seconds of quiet before you treat.
This has worked wonders for Conner and Dalyce who used to be the same way. It takes time and just to prepare you sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.
Make sure you work on it almost everyday. When working remember it takes 21 days to build a habit. The more you work the better the results.
GOOD LUCK!

[Corinthian]

The key to most behavior problems is approaching things using the dog's natural instincts. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/ For more on being top dog, see http://www.dogbreedinfo.com./topdogrules.htm

If you are in charge, then he doesn't have to worry about all those people.
I and the scientific evidence disagrees with everything you've written.

[k9mania]

Corinthian, I love it. It is true that it is not always about being the pack leader. Additionally, not all behavior is about the pack.

[Jr_K9_Expert]

I and the scientific evidence disagrees with everything you've written.

Corinthian would you please elaborate? While I flinch when people refer to humans as alpha dogs or as top dogs, I still think that some heirarchy is to be established to live a balanced life with a companion dog. I'm really intrigued in hearing what you mean by saying the scientific evidence;)

[LoveMyLabs]

I'd suggest putting up a dark barrier. Cover all the windows and don't allow access to the front seats. When he is quiet, let down part of the covering. If he barks or gets excited, put it back up. Repeat this process until the covering can be removed and he doesn't bark.
He seems to be reacting to the stimulation of seeing people and having them react to him. Once he realises that barking = no seeing then he'll quite down. :)

[Labman]

I and the scientific evidence disagrees with everything you've written.

No, there are some credible arguments against the pack leader ideas, but to say the scientific evidence disagrees with me is making up your own facts.

Harsh methods such as Cesar Milan uses are wrong. Leaders are more like old fashioned strict, but loving parents, not drill sargents.