correcting Elsa

[gsdmama]

Elsa is being a bad little girl lately. joey instigates it to. joey and elsa i have noticed lately that they like to stare each other down from different rooms. then all of a sudden they run to each other and knock heads. and elsa is trying to be dominant over joey.

i try to get them before it escalates but i am a little slow. i am trying to pick up on it sooner and stop it before it happens. someone told me i need to reestablish myself as the packleader??

elsa is also becoming a toy hog?? do you have any of those. it does matter how many toys she has she always wants the one that joey has, then he has none. i let them have play time in the family room if i am doing something else. i take out all the toys and let them play. elsa will get all the toys and then go after the only toy joey has. i am sure that is not go, but i was wondering if any of you have the same problem...

[6dogmom]

Rocky is a hog, but Ellie has that all under control. She won't let him steal all her toys. If he gets to possessive then he gets a time out in his crate while all the others play with the toys.

[Jr_K9_Expert]

If I remember correctly this is a problem that you have had for a while no? At least I remember that you mentioned something like this before. What I've heard its just best to let them work things out, if you pospone the bickering it will continue until they finally settle things. You being pack leader has little to do with it because they still need a hierarchy to abide by, under you of course.

If toys are making matters worse, it would be best to eliminate them for the time being. Possession of items is a sign of dominance. This is why Elsa is taking Joey's toys.

From your point of view, who is more dominant? Are they the same? I have a suggestion that might help, but in human termonology it may seem "Unfair"...

[gsdmama]

no it is just that she wants all the toys. even if we are at one of hubbys softball games she will have a softball, but that doesn't matter she wants the one that the guys are playing with.

she could have a hundred toys but that won't matter. she wants the one that someone else has....

i will have to snap a picture next time...



Elsa is the dominant one that is for sure.... i am trying to put her in her place.

i am trying to find that thin line between their playing and when she trys to dominate... i don't mind them playing and when joey doesn't like it he lets her know and he can instigate things also so he is not innocent...

[Jr_K9_Expert]

no it is just that she wants all the toys. even if we are at one of hubbys softball games she will have a softball, but that doesn't matter she wants the one that the guys are playing with.

she could have a hundred toys but that won't matter. she wants the one that someone else has....

i will have to snap a picture next time...

Ya, its like I said, she's trying to be more dominant. It's like their wild counter parts, when a less dominant wolf has a possession (like a bone) the wolves that are higher in the hierarchy will take it away because having something is a sign of dominance. You could correct her and tell her not to do that, but you can be doing more harm than good.

[gsdmama]

Rocky is a hog, but Ellie has that all under control. She won't let him steal all her toys. If he gets to possessive then he gets a time out in his crate while all the others play with the toys.

time out in the crate that is good....

then i might just try and give them a toy each but that doesn't work cause then she steals joeys and then he has none.

and i want them to play together..but not if she is a hog

[gsdmama]

Ya, its like I said, she's trying to be more dominant. It's like their wild counter parts, when a less dominant wolf has a possession (like a bone) the wolves that are higher in the hierarchy will take it away because having something is a sign of dominance. You could correct her and tell her not to do that, but you can be doing more harm than good.


really see i didn't know that... so if i put all the toys out and she trys to take them all and i correct her that will do harm????

[Jr_K9_Expert]

really see i didn't know that... so if i put all the toys out and she trys to take them all and i correct her that will do harm????

No, if she is trying to take toys from you, its alright to correct her, because you are the leader of this pack, however if Joey is the less dominant dog and she tries to take a toy from him and you stop her or chastice her, you may have some problems.

Allow me to put it into a human situation...sorta...I'll try :o Let's take a classroom for example. The student would be Joey, the teacher is Elsa, and the principal is you. The teacher obviously has more power and if a student is acting up the teacher has the power to chastice him/her and has every right to. However how about if a student is being a nuisance and the teacher tries to take corrective measures, but the principal comes in and tells her not to do anything, even though she has the right to correct the student. How does the teacher feel? Won't it rise more tension? Highly probable.

Hehehe ok the example was a bit cheesy but it sorta illustrates what I'm trying to say. If you prevent a heirarchy order from forming, the bickering will continue.

However that's my point of view, could be that others may have a differing opinion so I'll be quiet :p

[Furbilator]

This toy stealing and one-ups-manship is perfectly normal and happens with most dogs when they get together. Dogs of equal rank will constantly challenge each other for toys, status, etc. where as dogs of differring ranks will be reminded of thier respective position regularly by the more dominant dog. Get used to it, it is normal. Unless there is bloodshed, injury or danger to the breakables in the house, let them sort it all out for themselves.

Unlike kids, the dog that loses his toys doesn't cry to mommy. He will accept that this is his role in the pack and it doesn't bother him at all. On occassion he will challenge Elsa to see if her status has changed which sounds like the stare down you witnessed, but overall he is contented to be bottom dog on the doggie totem pole. Also note that these stare downs and run at each other full tilt sessions are a normal part of play too so don't be so concerned. Throw them outside and you will see them tustle and play-fight for a while without harm. Again, as long as there is no bloodshed...it is just play challenging and nothing to worry about.

When my dog and her sister get together they sound like the hounds of hell when they play fight. They both love it and look forward to each puppy visit.

Hope this helps,
Furbs

[sarap]

Kate, my female sounds like Elsa. She is constantly taking toys from Bandit. I have been told they need to find their hierarcy as well, however if it gets to the point that mine did, Kate wouldn't let Bandit come in the living room with me, I put a stop to that. I know she is donminent over him but I am alpha and if I say he can join us in the living room my opinion is law. She has figured out if I say this is Bandit's she is not allowed to have it at all, she always gets something too but this way Bandit gets to keep his. I have had to teach Kate to wait her turn, and it has worked wonders for my small pack. Bandit has become the cuddley boy agian, before I realized Kate had banished him he was quite a loner and spent his time in the hall way. I noticed when I called him Kate would block him from coming and then I made some changes. I think what your experiencing is quite normal but watch your position as alpha, Kate tried to take mine.

[Furbilator]

SaraP has it on the nose. LOL

[gsdmama]

today a friend brought 2 toys over. i gave elsa hers and then joey his. as soon as i gave joey his toy she ran over and snatched it from him and ran off. well she didn't know i was standing near by and i grabbed her and corrected her and i took her toy away and put her in the crate. joey got to stay out and play with his. well my friend doesn't know sheperds to well. when they had left those toys didn't last a 1/2 hour. they had destroyed them. so now they are in the trash. back to the kongs...

i have been correcting her when she gets to rough with joey and he is learning not to take it from her. he is starting to get mad.

last night was the first time that joey snarled at elsa. he was laying on the couch sleeping and elsa walked up to him and was trying to bug him and he didn't like it and he snarled and growled at her. of course i jumped up and corrected her.