At wits ends with Tigger

[Shara]

I am getting beyond frustrated with Tigger. Today I had him in my room (a rare treat, he usually bounces on my bed lays down and almost "hugs the bed" hes so happy to be there) well I get in bed to use my lap top, and he jumps down, which is rare, so I call him to come.

He does the bloody 'Im gonna ignore you now' body posture. So I told him, get up here now, he knows "get up there" means to get up on anything I point to, be it a pause box for agility, sit up box for obedience, or get in the couch, bed...ect...

Again he did the 'screw you' look.

I do not know what to do. I really am fed up with him. Scale 1 to 10 im at a 20 with frustration. Hes 1 1/2 years old and I have been working him since he was a puppy. He knows too many things, tricks, ect...and then for him to fail so bad at recalls.

Should I change the word ? Has he associated come with "crap its end of play time" or something?

One of my friends say to get rid of him, thats just not an option. Thats how frustrated I am with him. A dog that hates to come to you. What good is that.

[turfgirl]

Sorry, there are people on here who know more than me that is for sure, but I do know that you should not give up on him yet. Maybe he is going through a phase or maybe there is a disruption in the routine in the household that is upsetting him. You know he has the capabilities to do everything you want so there must be something bothering him. I know you are patient, but just give him a little more an just keep loving him. Hugs Susan & Lexcee

[ann_hawes]

Sometimes I get a dog that will go as fast as possible in the other direction when I say the word "come". I do change the word, sometimes to "here!" , "cookie?" or whatever will work with that particular dog. The problem seems to happen when they begin to associate the word with something negative, even if it was someone telling the dog "come", meaning the romp is over, we're going home. Maybe a trainer here will have a better idea.

[Shara]

Sometimes I get a dog that will go as fast as possible in the other direction when I say the word "come". I do change the word, sometimes to "here!" , "cookie?" or whatever will work with that particular dog. The problem seems to happen when they begin to associate the word with something negative, even if it was someone telling the dog "come", meaning the romp is over, we're going home. Maybe a trainer here will have a better idea.

I think this is right, I think Come has become a negative thing for him, same with Shara and "stand" because my trainer heavily corrected her on it, changed it to 'pop up' and she has nailed stand for exam ever since.

I definatly think you are right.

[Shara]

Sorry, there are people on here who know more than me that is for sure, but I do know that you should not give up on him yet. Maybe he is going through a phase or maybe there is a disruption in the routine in the household that is upsetting him. You know he has the capabilities to do everything you want so there must be something bothering him. I know you are patient, but just give him a little more an just keep loving him. Hugs Susan & Lexcee


Thank you Susan.

I really hit a brick wall mentally with Tig today. I still have to remember he is still young as well. Thank you for your words of encoragment and being so positive to us. <3

[BetterDog4U]

Changing the word is a good idea, but you also need to change the result. By this I mean this: the word must become a something that means GOOD things ONLY. When I use the word COME, the only thing that EVER happens is: The dogs get a treat, or they get lovin' ... The same thing with their name too!

Think about it this way: If I call you over to me, and 3 of 5 times I slap your face ... how many times do you think it would take before you realize that coming over to me was a bad thing? On the other hand, if you came over, and I gave you a $100 bill everytime, you would probably be asking me if there is anything you could bring with you!!! ;)

From the posted in the past few weeks, I really suggest that you start over and re-invent your relationship with Tigger. For this weekend, dont put ANY demands on him and just hang out together. Play and have fun. Show Tig that you want to be buddies. Then begin to ask for behaivors and just reward for proper behavior.

If you remove the stress, he will relax. I really think it will help.

[turfgirl]

Thank you Susan.

I really hit a brick wall mentally with Tig today. I still have to remember he is still young as well. Thank you for your words of encoragment and being so positive to us. <3

Hey kiddo, that is what we are here for. You guys were there for me, I just wish I could help more but I like Michael's suggestion it really makes sense. I am going to try it on Lexcee. Sometimes she does what Tigger does just looks at me like "SCREW YOU MOM".

There for you anytime I may not be an expert but can be there to help boost your spirits. Hugs Susan and yes the very stubborn Lexcee

[BetterDog4U]

... but I like Michael's suggestion it really makes sense. I am going to try it on Lexcee. Sometimes she does what Tigger does just looks at me like "SCREW YOU MOM".



I've done this with Patchs 2 or 3 times in the past few months. It's like giving them a day off work. Sometimes you get further by not trying to move forward ...

[turfgirl]

I've done this with Patchs 2 or 3 times in the past few months. It's like giving them a day off work. Sometimes you get further by not trying to move forward ...

:confused: Any ideas of how to get Lexcee to allow me to put drops in her ears. She has a mild yeast infection and does not want to come near me when she sees the drops. I have tried treats and she learned very quickly the treat is not worth it and I try to hold her in my lap but she just wriggels her way out. I sometimes have to wait for someone else to be her to hold her while I put the drops in, but that is difficult if they have to be put in 3 times a day lol. any ideas would be appreciated. Hugs Susan and Lexcee well I am not letting her read this so that she cannot get any ideas of how to avoid the drops lol

[BetterDog4U]

:confused: Any ideas of how to get Lexcee to allow me to put drops in her ears. She has a mild yeast infection and does not want to come near me when she sees the drops. I have tried treats and she learned very quickly the treat is not worth it and I try to hold her in my lap but she just wriggels her way out. I sometimes have to wait for someone else to be her to hold her while I put the drops in, but that is difficult if they have to be put in 3 times a day lol. any ideas would be appreciated. Hugs Susan and Lexcee well I am not letting her read this so that she cannot get any ideas of how to avoid the drops lolHave you tried to use an eyedropper instead of the bottle? The only other thing that imeadatly comes to mind is to put her on her side, give her a nice relaxing massage and then give the drops.

[turfgirl]

Have you tried to use an eyedropper instead of the bottle? The only other thing that imeadatly comes to mind is to put her on her side, give her a nice relaxing massage and then give the drops.

yes Michael I use an eye dropper, sometimes I am lucky and just try a different approach. Tonight I am going to wait till we go to bed. We have a ritual of brushing her down then she settles down to sleep. I might just fool her and throw in the drops lol. She is just waaaaaay to smart for me, or I am just getting too old for her lol. Hugs Susan & Lexcee

[Shara]

:confused: Any ideas of how to get Lexcee to allow me to put drops in her ears. She has a mild yeast infection and does not want to come near me when she sees the drops. I have tried treats and she learned very quickly the treat is not worth it and I try to hold her in my lap but she just wriggels her way out. I sometimes have to wait for someone else to be her to hold her while I put the drops in, but that is difficult if they have to be put in 3 times a day lol. any ideas would be appreciated. Hugs Susan and Lexcee well I am not letting her read this so that she cannot get any ideas of how to avoid the drops lol

Have you tried letting her come to you, getting in your lap, having a towel there, wrapping her up in the towel. Have the meds close by and some treats. Flip her over on her back in the towel and give the drops, you could even 'trick' her by having another dropper with some milk or something she can have and make her associate a dropper as food/treat hehe.

[Shara]

yes Michael I use an eye dropper, sometimes I am lucky and just try a different approach. Tonight I am going to wait till we go to bed. We have a ritual of brushing her down then she settles down to sleep. I might just fool her and throw in the drops lol. She is just waaaaaay to smart for me, or I am just getting too old for her lol. Hugs Susan & Lexcee


oooo I gots an idea, give her the brush down, start massaging her ears, dogs LOVE that, and just have the dropper ready. Sneaky sneaky!

[BetterDog4U]

oooo I gots an idea, give her the brush down, start massaging her ears, dogs LOVE that, and just have the dropper ready. Sneaky sneaky!

I like this idea too ... You want to avoid "tricking" her. You want her to "want" you to take care of her. What is her "curency" (what is her favorite thing in the world)? Use it when she get in your lap, and use it again when she allows you to give her a few drops in the ear. Go slow, so she trust you not to trick her.

[turfgirl]

Well Shara lol sometimes we just have to be sneaky. I don't like the idea of tricking her, but my head tells me that I have to get her to submit to me as head of the pack (small pack that it is) so what I will do is make the brushing, massaging as pleasant as possible do the ear drops and then give her a treat. When I started brushing her that is what I did every night and the strange thing is that she will not let me brush her anywhere but in the bed with me. So maybe that is the place to do it. I will try it and let you know.
I know I have to be firm and that is the hard part lol, but sometimes as in this situation she will just have to like it or lump it. Sorry Lexcee that's the way it is. She is sitting beside me and just looking at me with those big deep eyes lol. I swear she understands me and it is quite possible can read :rolleyes:

[Momto3]

I've always had my pooches sit at my feet facing away from me. Turn their head to the side so it's resting on your leg as you stand over them. Drops in the ear and treats afterwards. They can't back out of the way since you're right behind them and their head's pretty much trapped. On the grooming table is basically the same thing - backwards. Their instinct is to back away from you.

[turfgirl]

I've always had my pooches sit at my feet facing away from me. Turn their head to the side so it's resting on your leg as you stand over them. Drops in the ear and treats afterwards. They can't back out of the way since you're right behind them and their head's pretty much trapped. On the grooming table is basically the same thing - backwards. Their instinct is to back away from you.

Sounds like a good plan, I will try it today. At this point I am willing to try anything otherwise I wasted all that money on the drops and she still has the infection. Thanks Susan

[CerbiesMom]

Changing the word is a good idea, but you also need to change the result. By this I mean this: the word must become a something that means GOOD things ONLY. When I use the word COME, the only thing that EVER happens is: The dogs get a treat, or they get lovin' ... The same thing with their name too!

Think about it this way: If I call you over to me, and 3 of 5 times I slap your face ... how many times do you think it would take before you realize that coming over to me was a bad thing? On the other hand, if you came over, and I gave you a $100 bill everytime, you would probably be asking me if there is anything you could bring with you!!! ;)

From the posted in the past few weeks, I really suggest that you start over and re-invent your relationship with Tigger. For this weekend, dont put ANY demands on him and just hang out together. Play and have fun. Show Tig that you want to be buddies. Then begin to ask for behaivors and just reward for proper behavior.

If you remove the stress, he will relax. I really think it will help.

I agree. I don't ever use the word come for calling them to me for anything that isn't wonderful. Not for nail trims, or baths, or for some reason, Brigit hates putting a collar/harness/leash on. It's generally used when I'm calling one to come sit with me when we're inside. Or if I don't know whereBrigit is. And it's always HEAVILY rewarded. We have a party every time Brigit comes, bc she's the same way; she'll give you "The look", then sprint the opposite direction. When outside with Cerb, there are a few places I'll let him run. If I say come and he listens, he gets to run more. "enough" is the word I use when we're done, and he'll generally listen to that (about 80%, sometimes he runs for another 30 seconds or so).

What is Tigger's favorite thing to do?

[Shara]

Tig loves frisbees and balls. But I am thinking balls trump frisbees, hes a ball nut, even though we dont play with them that much, I use them for under my chin when doing recalls to get him to come straight in and look up, then I drop the ball from my chin and he catches it.

And tug rope he LOVES his tug rope. And snakey...and ...well dang he loves every toy we have for him. lol. His leash is a tug rope for instant rewards when heeling, we will go into a tug game.

When Tig was a puppy puppy we had to de-sensitize him to balls, because he litterally would run across rings if he thought he saw a ball to the point we couldnt controll him. Even after doing that to where he will ignore balls if in the ring now, if he is allowed to play with balls it is the most happy time for him. :rolleyes:

With Tig lacking herding instinct, his ball crazyness, and emotional attitude, I think I have a lab or golden not a border collie sometimes.:p

[CerbiesMom]

Tig loves frisbees and balls. But I am thinking balls trump frisbees, hes a ball nut, even though we dont play with them that much, I use them for under my chin when doing recalls to get him to come straight in and look up, then I drop the ball from my chin and he catches it.

And tug rope he LOVES his tug rope. And snakey...and ...well dang he loves every toy we have for him. lol. His leash is a tug rope for instant rewards when heeling, we will go into a tug game.

When Tig was a puppy puppy we had to de-sensitize him to balls, because he litterally would run across rings if he thought he saw a ball to the point we couldnt controll him. Even after doing that to where he will ignore balls if in the ring now, if he is allowed to play with balls it is the most happy time for him. :rolleyes:

With Tig lacking herding instinct, his ball crazyness, and emotional attitude, I think I have a lab or golden not a border collie sometimes.:p

Use toys as reinforcement, then. Sounds like you know what rewards him. After he comes, throw a ball for him. That way he'll learn that he has to come to have fun, if that makes sense to you.

[6dogmom]

Just take a step back for a while. If you try to get him to follow commands while frustrated he will not listen guaranteed. So when you feel yourself getting to that frustration just stop and take a step back for a while. When you feel more calm try again.
Remember that no matter how many commands our dogs know, training is a life long task. Some days will be great successes and some days will be horrible failures. Just stay calm and hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
The last thing you want to do is change your command words. That is what he knows, so stick with it.
Good Luck.

[lavenderlil]

Is he not at the last chalenging phase,16-20 + months.? Check for your breed.If he is at this stage just treat him the way you did as a puppy,firm but just.It passes and eventually you end up with a healthy well ajusted adult dog.Never leave your dog for long periods of time as they miss you and become bored and distructive.Some people think they are great dog owners if they take a rescue dog but work long hours and would you really like a pup to have to spend every working day of yours at a dog shelter.
Please spare me the pain.

Lavender Lil

[turfgirl]

Is he not at the last chalenging phase,16-20 + months.? Check for your breed.If he is at this stage just treat him the way you did as a puppy,firm but just.It passes and eventually you end up with a healthy well ajusted adult dog.Never leave your dog for long periods of time as they miss you and become bored and distructive.Some people think they are great dog owners if they take a rescue dog but work long hours and would you really like a pup to have to spend every working day of yours at a dog shelter.
Please spare me the pain.

Lavender Lil

:confused: Will someone please explain the last part of this post? I read through the whole thread and cannot for the life of me figure out where working long hours, and the pup in a dog shelter come in. Sorry, just don't get it lol Hugs Susan and Lexcee (as smart as she is she does not get it either)

[Shara]

:confused: Will someone please explain the last part of this post? I read through the whole thread and cannot for the life of me figure out where working long hours, and the pup in a dog shelter come in. Sorry, just don't get it lol Hugs Susan and Lexcee (as smart as she is she does not get it either)

Same, the ending 'spare me the pain' got me :confused:

I dont work, since being laid off, and theres no hiring here, so I spend maybe TOO much time with my dogs...lol.

He might be in his last span of the difficult days, but he is fixed, and I have been training him since 6 weeks old. I never really knew there was a difficult age stage 16-20 months, if thats true, I will be so glad when hes 20months old haha.

[ann_hawes]

I didn't see the post except where you quoted it. lol
Maybe it means that the only people who should own dogs should be independently wealthy?
I don't get the shelter part either.
And I surely don't know what it has to do with Tigger.

[turfgirl]

:o Thank goodness, I was thinking I was either dumb, old, or just could not read lol. I thought about it later and decided that I think it was just a "dig" and I am so glad that no one took the bait esp Shara. I guess some people just have meaness in their hearts even at this time of year.

:rolleyes: Shara I work (way too much lol) and still spend too much time with Lexcee. You are doing a great job with Tigger, who is just going through a tough time right now. Hugs Susan & Lexcee

[6dogmom]

Yeah, don't worry about that other post Shara, I sometimes don't have enough time to spend with mine either. But that definitly doesn't mean they belong at a shelter. Tooo many dogs are being given up now. I have also seen tons of strays lately too. It breaks my heart to think that someones opinion would be to just give up your dog.
Where theres a will theres a way.
Tigs will come around, don't worry. Especially males I think like to challenge us owners, but think of it that way, a challenge. Just continue to do what you do and sooner hopefully not later he will respond.

[Momto3]

Yeah, don't worry about that other post Shara, I sometimes don't have enough time to spend with mine either. But that definitly doesn't mean they belong at a shelter. Tooo many dogs are being given up now. I have also seen tons of strays lately too. It breaks my heart to think that someones opinion would be to just give up your dog.
Where theres a will theres a way.
Tigs will come around, don't worry. Especially males I think like to challenge us owners, but think of it that way, a challenge. Just continue to do what you do and sooner hopefully not later he will respond.

Ditto from me! The only thing is I did have a neighbor who had a boxer who told me they get the juvenile nasties around 18 months unless neutered but then you don't have a boxer... With my cockers I have near total recall on the ones who can hear. But they all have their moments when they just cannot be bothered with anything I say unless it's something like SUPPER!

[Weesha1717]

:confused: Any ideas of how to get Lexcee to allow me to put drops in her ears. She has a mild yeast infection and does not want to come near me when she sees the drops. I have tried treats and she learned very quickly the treat is not worth it and I try to hold her in my lap but she just wriggels her way out. I sometimes have to wait for someone else to be her to hold her while I put the drops in, but that is difficult if they have to be put in 3 times a day lol. any ideas would be appreciated. Hugs Susan and Lexcee well I am not letting her read this so that she cannot get any ideas of how to avoid the drops lol


I am putting drops in Spunkys ear also, he has a yeast infection to. I put the two drops in and hold down his ear (kinda flap it over). Let it drip in fo a couple seconds, then when he does shake his head it spreads across the entire ear = ) They are no fun =(

*Everytime he gets drops in his ears he gets a treat, so he assosicates the drops to treat after..that worked for us =)

[turfgirl]

I am putting drops in Spunkys ear also, he has a yeast infection to. I put the two drops in and hold down his ear (kinda flap it over). Let it drip in fo a couple seconds, then when he does shake his head it spreads across the entire ear = ) They are no fun =(

*Everytime he gets drops in his ears he gets a treat, so he assosicates the drops to treat after..that worked for us =)

I have tried that again for the last few days and plus I have been more firm with her sitting in my lap facing forward and it has gotten a little easier. Do you know how long it takes for the infection to clear? None of my dogs have ever had this before lol. Hugs Susan & Lexcee

[Weesha1717]

I have tried that again for the last few days and plus I have been more firm with her sitting in my lap facing forward and it has gotten a little easier. Do you know how long it takes for the infection to clear? None of my dogs have ever had this before lol. Hugs Susan & Lexcee

A week? Spunkys usually takes that long. He is the only one out of mine that gets them. He wil get one about 3 times a year = (

[turfgirl]

A week? Spunkys usually takes that long. He is the only one out of mine that gets them. He wil get one about 3 times a year = (

:eek: This is the first time she has had one oh well something to look forward to lol. Thanks for the info Susan