ceaser milan

[lamper]

I watched ceaser milan last night. I think he is very good, he seems to talk a lot of sense, and is successful with the dogs he works with, however, I know a lot of people do not like him or agree with his methods. I cannot see why.

[crazydays]

Personally I like Cesar Millan. He has proven history of great results with some of the worst cases around. I enjoy his show and I have learned alot from him-especially in the area of keeping calm state of mind, and how our emotions directly effect our dogs. I don't believe anyone can say they are a absolute authority when it comes to training dogs. I listen to many different trainers and I find that each one shares a similar message in different ways.

I have heard negative views about him. Everyone has a right to their thoughts. I am definitely in his camp! I believe he is a caring man who has had excellent success with his philosophy. I truly believe he loves dogs!!

[Wolfwalker]

I don't believe anyone can say they are a absolute authority when it comes to training dogs. I listen to many different trainers and I find that each one shares a similar message in different ways.


That is my attitude too. I think that if you were looking for a builder you wouldn't just pick the first one in Yellow Pages. You would look at a few builders previous work before deciding.

Some dog trainers have good sucess in one area of behaviour. Others excell in other problem areas. Cesar Millan seems to me to have good people skills which others lack.

BTW crazydays - I love the look of your P&S Schnauzer. I have a P&S Giant. ;)

[skippygurl00]

I watched his series as I have it on dvd,and today practised his method on teaching my dog how to walk beside me,for the first time she didnt try pulling in front of me and want to go after every dog she saw.it was our best walk ever.I think he is a terrific trainer,I saw results in minutes and Im happy
his methods are not cruel,and dogs respect authority.if he can fix problem dogs why do people not like his ways?

[DaisyandAndysMom]

I love Ceasar too. Some of his methods really helped my "special needs" pup, Andy. But I have heard that people don't like him because he's rougher with the dogs when he's not on camera. But you can't believe everything you hear, and you can really see how much he loves the dogs when he's working with them.

[lovethatdogg]

I watched ceaser milan last night. I think he is very good, he seems to talk a lot of sense, and is successful with the dogs he works with, however, I know a lot of people do not like him or agree with his methods. I cannot see why.
omg, i also love him. His teaching are weird, but i trust him and beleive him. I feel he is so smart and truley loves his dogs.

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/
This is his site, i love him, but the site seems alittle comercial.:p

[buggis]

Millan's critics say that his methods are outdated, cruel, and ineffective in the long term. They also criticize him for not having any formal education in regards to dog psychology. I like Millan and have found his calm, assertive energy to be very helpful with my dog and even my family! I think the critics are just jealous that an illegal immigrant with no formal education is so popular. Get over it!

[janice]

ah we like ceaser i always watch his programmes you can learn alot from just watching , also all the dogs in his pack are so well behaved and respect his presance :) our dogs watch him aswell lol

[6dogmom]

Ceaser is how I bike with mine everyday. I love his methods, I have also found that with his methods and some of the others mixed it makes a good combo.

[ChillisMom]

I watched ceaser milan last night. I think he is very good, he seems to talk a lot of sense, and is successful with the dogs he works with, however, I know a lot of people do not like him or agree with his methods. I cannot see why.

I like Ceser Milan. But I don't agree with some of the stuff I've seen on his show.. Pit Bulls off leash, I've seen him with Pit Bulls at the dog park also..... I also don't agree how he says Pit Bulls are pack animals, pack animals with people, but with other dogs, not so much.

Also he thinks you can fix every animal when you cannot.

[lovethatdogg]

hhhmmmm, well i love him. I do believe pits are pack animals. i believe most dogs are. They usually like the other company and rules of a pack. Well, i think when he says he can rehbilitate all dogs and cases, he is being cockey. But i just think he really wants to give every dog a chance to learn and grow.

[ChillisMom]

hhhmmmm, well i love him. I do believe pits are pack animals. i believe most dogs are. They usually like the other company and rules of a pack. Well, i think when he says he can rehbilitate all dogs and cases, he is being cockey. But i just think he really wants to give every dog a chance to learn and grow.

No Pits are not pack animals they have been bred for over a hundred years to fight with other dogs and to like doing it. If they are carefully watched around other animals they can get along.

One thing I love about him though is how he always says "exercise, discepline and then love", couldn't agree more with him on that though.

[lovethatdogg]

All dogs came form wolfs....well most. but there are a few from dingos these days.Wolfs are pack animals. Yes there are frighter today, but were not always made for dog rings. There were bull ranglers. As you being a pit owner, it sadens me that you would even dare to say that they love fighting!
No one loves to fight. They do not love fighting so that they can kill, they fight because they love the owner, the pack leader. All they want to do is please there owner, thats why they fight until death. This only proves they need a pack leader, or some guidence form the other "pack members". If the owner or leader is a fighting person, the dog will follow that example of the leader.


ps. please undersyad when i disagree with you, it is not out of anger or becuase i hate you. I actually like you and like hereing your point of veiw. But pitbull issues is something i find very important, so thats why it may come of as mean.please understand

[nbircher]

I also love Cesar Milan, I don't think he is cruel in anyway, if he was his charges would be afraid of him, don't you think?

[lovethatdogg]

I also love Cesar Milan, I don't think he is cruel in anyway, if he was his charges would be afraid of him, don't you think?

What? sorry, i do not understand that last part.
lol

[ChillisMom]

All dogs came form wolfs....well most. but there are a few from dingos these days.Wolfs are pack animals. Yes there are frighter today, but were not always made for dog rings. There were bull ranglers. As you being a pit owner, it sadens me that you would even dare to say that they love fighting!
No one loves to fight. They do not love fighting so that they can kill, they fight because they love the owner, the pack leader. All they want to do is please there owner, thats why they fight until death. This only proves they need a pack leader, or some guidence form the other "pack members". If the owner or leader is a fighting person, the dog will follow that example of the leader.


ps. please undersyad when i disagree with you, it is not out of anger or becuase i hate you. I actually like you and like hereing your point of veiw. But pitbull issues is something i find very important, so thats why it may come of as mean.please understand

Don't worry I don't take offence! It's nice to debate.
But Pits do like to fight (you cannot train a pit to fight, only condition one to fight(build their indurance), I don't care what the hsus says.) You wouldn't say that a Lab doesn't like to retreive would you? I'm not saying fighting a dog is good (even though I'm glad it was done or else I wouldn't have the dog I have today) but I do understand why people used to fight dogs. I also think to deny my dog of her history would be incredibley foolish on my part. I think part of the reason this breed is in such bad shape as it is nowadays is because of the people who choose to own this breed because they feel sorry for them and choose not to educate themselves properly on their history. I'm proud of my dogs history, I don't deny it.

In a time when we are fighting BSL, I feel we have to be honest.

Please don't think I'm trying to be mean to you either, lol! :D

[lovethatdogg]

I do not think your mean at all. Well, they do have a fighting nature i guess, i mean thats what they were breed for. But not ever pit or staffie will fight, they have nto choice when they are being attacked. But part of why people have BSL and are scared of pits, it becuse they are a strong, stubborn breed. They only thing people here about pit is the attacks of bites. what about all those pis that help rescue 9/11 victoms. or that amn was being attack and robbed at a gas station, and the pit saved him becuse the guy was scared. I just wish people remember the good not the bad. It is the same if i old you " your hair looks bad today, but i like that neclace", all you are going to remember is that i said your hair looks bad.
This is a touchey subject, but one i feel strongley for.
thanx

[skippygurl00]

I like Ceaser Milan. But I don't agree with some of the stuff I've seen on his show.. Pit Bulls off leash, I've seen him with Pit Bulls at the dog park also..... I also don't agree how he says Pit Bulls are pack animals, he cant know much about the breed...

Also he thinks you can fix every animal when you cannot.

he doesnt think all dogs can be fixed,he has said there is a tiny percentage of dogs that cannot be helped
pit bulls are dogs,dogs are pack animals.its people that make them they way they are,not all pitbull are vicious, nasty beasts.If anyone can control a dog he can and obviously has the knowlege and confidence to know his pitbulls in an off leash park
no matter how many years have past pitbulls will always be dogs therefore a pack animal

[lovethatdogg]

he doesnt think all dogs can be fixed,he has said there is a tiny percentage of dogs that cannot be helped
pit bulls are dogs,dogs are pack animals.its people that make them they way they are,not all pitbull are vicious, nasty beasts.If anyone can control a dog he can and obviously has the knowlege and confidence to know his pitbulls in an off leash park
no matter how many years have past pitbulls will always be dogs therefore a pack animal
I agree, ya, i do not really think dogs can be fixed i guess. But they can be helped.nice point

[ChillisMom]

he doesnt think all dogs can be fixed,he has said there is a tiny percentage of dogs that cannot be helped
pit bulls are dogs,dogs are pack animals.its people that make them they way they are,not all pitbull are vicious, nasty beasts.If anyone can control a dog he can and obviously has the knowlege and confidence to know his pitbulls in an off leash park
no matter how many years have past pitbulls will always be dogs therefore a pack animal

You can't teach a American Pit Bull Terrier to fight other dogs, they already know how to do it. The ones who bite people might have been trained or they also might be unsound dogs, even an APBT can be unsound despite years of excessive culling. I'm sorry but I think it is just irresponsible to bring a Pit to a dog park or have one off leash, even if you are Cesar Millan, no matter what happens it will always be the Pit Bull's fault..... I want future generations to enjoy this breed like I have, but if people keep acting the way they do with these dogs we might not even be able to enjoy them tomorrow.... and that makes my heart hurt.

Also the thing about them being pack animals, maybe they are.... but they will always have an innate desire to fight with other dogs. Other dogs fight but not like APBTs.

[lovethatdogg]

You can't teach a American Pit Bull Terrier to fight other dogs, they already know how to do it. The ones who bite people might have been trained or they also might be unsound dogs, even an APBT can be unsound despite years of excessive culling of the curs or manbiters. I'm sorry but I think it is just irresponsible to bring a Pit to a dog park or have one off leash, even if you are Cesar Millan, no matter what happens it will always be the Pit Bull's fault..... I want future generations to enjoy this breed like I have, but if people keep acting the way they do with these dogs we might not even be able to enjoy them tomorrow.... and that makes my heart hurt.

Also the thing about them being pack animals, maybe they are.... but they will always have an innate desire to fight with other dogs. If you set a "pack" of them free, I think that eventually there would only be one left.... Other dogs fight but not like APBTs.
I disagree...agion, all dogs come from wolfs, and they are pack animals. If you put pits who have been trained to fight...ya, there migh end up killing and picking off eachother. But ones that are normal not dog aggrssive, will astablish a higher arche and a stable pack....like wolfs. I am nnot sure how long they would live giving the fact they no longer have a strong anough istinct to hunt, and rely on up.anyway,they were bull dogs..not dog fighting dogs. Thats evolved in later years.Ya, i am sure they get annoued with each other, and will nip. But they will not intetionaly hunt down, and kill another dog...just because. ya, they are a strong breed, and do have aggressive instincts, but if you do not let them get away with it...they won't. If you, as a pack leader, do not fight...neither will they. In a sense, dog these days are definatly like kids. Even if you do not reolise it, or your pack is unstable, you are still the pack leader. You feed then, tell them when to go on walks, and even disaplen them. They need giudence like children, so they can tell when things are wrong and right. If fighting is all they now, hell ya there going to fight. But if they are in a good household like most of us here, treated like a dog...loved...then they will be fine. Socilzation with other dogs is regularley needed so they do not pick up habbits that are bad. But i believe they are pack animals just like every other dog.:p

[ChillisMom]

Actually American Pit Bull Terriers are not bulldogs, they are half bulldog and half terrier. Once bull baiting was made illegal people began to look for other forms of entertainment. So people started putting there dogs against eachothers. They bred their larger bulldogs to more small and agile terriers thus creating a new breed of dog. APBTs were bred for the pit first and now we have found other jobs for them to do, not the other way around.

I have never "trained" Chill to fight but she does, that is why she is not allowed with other dogs she doesn't know. Even if she knows the dog like my Akita I still watch them like a hawk (they are never alone together ever, even if I'm in a different room, or I go to the bathroom.) so if something does happen I can immediately step in. Pit bulls are not trained to fight it is something ingraned in there brain, you just have to be responsible.

[lovethatdogg]

Actually American Pit Bull Terriers are not bulldogs, they are half bulldog and half terrier. Once bull baiting was made illegal people began to look for other forms of entertainment. So people started putting there dogs against eachothers. They bred their larger bulldogs to more small and agile terriers thus creating a new breed of dog. APBTs were bred for the pit first and now we have found other jobs for them to do, not the other way around.

I have never "trained" Chill to fight but she does, that is why she is not allowed with other dogs she doesn't know. Even if she knows the dog like my Akita I still watch them like a hawk (they are never alone together ever, even if I'm in a different room, or I go to the bathroom.) so if something does happen I can immediately step in. Pit bulls are not trained to fight it is something ingraned in there brain, you just have to be responsible.
I think you miss understood me.... i do not mean they are bulldogs....http://www.bulldogs-pictures.com/pictures-images-photos/bulldogs-pictures-01.jpg

I mean they are bull dogs....http://www.workingpitbull.com/images/baitsm.jpg

Ya, i think they have a "aggresive nature" because they were meant to be kindda mean dogs.But that is why they have to go to the right home, and have stern training. They need "special" attention to make sure they are not aggressive, and make sure they are good with other dogs. I think many people cannot handle the breed, so end up fighting beauce they do not know what else to do....sad....:(

[nikk]

I think Cesar Milan is a miracle worker. One of my friends in Ca actually got to go to one of his seminars. And she just couldn't say anything neg. about him. And I do agree that people are against him, because he doesn't have "formal" training, and he is an immigrant. BIG Deal. Hats off to you Cesar!!

[ChillisMom]

Wow, your friends lucky! I'd love to go to one, just to check it out, I hear they're pretty pricey though! Lol.

[lovethatdogg]

Ya, they have to be. He is a great guy and probobly makes a ton! He also has gorgous teeth. just sayin........

[nikk]

Yeah, she was able to go because her boss at the pet store invited her. Her boss used to do training seminars and have classes behind her shop. Thought it would be good for my friend Patty. She's been around dogs, small, large, friendly, not so friendly all of her life. And wanted to learn from one of the best. She came back saying "He's gorgeous", here I thought she was talking about a dog. Not, talking about Caesar. Anyways, back to the debate.:p

[nikk]

Being an owner of 4 pits, I agree on some parts of what everyone is saying. I have witnessed what these animals can do when raised wrong. Than I have witnessed what happens when someone like me has one. Luka is huge. If he was to get it in his skull, what he is it could be ugly. This dog has been hand-raised since 3 weeks old. He has been raised with cats, he gets beat up by cats. He has been attacked by a few different dogs. The latest a very big black lab.(in our own yard). He has been taught how to "back up" when we're around. He is a very gentle giant. He loves other dogs, even when they get nasty with him. He has gone to dog parks in So.Cal. and I can usually pick out what trouble makers there are, or if it's going to be a good day. Yes, I agree some owners should not allow their dogs into a dog park. We went to one in Las Vegas. Nice Nice park. 4 different sections. Tiny, small, Med. Large. And we had no problems. It also helps alot when you spay or neuter. As all of ours. People don't realize that they create more problems, with these beautiful K9's. By back-yard breeding, and being totally irresponsible. Ok I will get off my soap-box now. Hope no one gets offended. Just love my Pits.

[ChillisMom]

Yeah, she was able to go because her boss at the pet store invited her. Her boss used to do training seminars and have classes behind her shop. Thought it would be good for my friend Patty. She's been around dogs, small, large, friendly, not so friendly all of her life. And wanted to learn from one of the best. She came back saying "He's gorgeous", here I thought she was talking about a dog. Not, talking about Caesar. Anyways, back to the debate.:p

Did your friend say anything on how short he was? On his show he looks pretty short. I'm under five feet myself so I tend to notice others heights, LMAO...

[nikk]

No, she didn't but she's sorta tallish, nothing like our 5 foot somethings.(lol) She was just so amazed at him. She's bought like every book, every D.V.D, and is a total Milan-Aholic.

[battlemonkey]

I love Cesar and watch his show everyday. I have had problems with my dog in the past being agressive toward other dogs and have never been able to get her out of that behavior, even with certified trainers (and I've paid a few of them). Everytime my dog was trying to lunge (which I wouldn't let her) or started to growl at other dogs, they would tell us not to come anymore instead of trying to train her otherwise.

I have used some of Cesar's methods of training on this issue, and it came to no surprise that she's doing much, much better (even at 9 years old).

I think somebody said earlier that mixing a few techniques from different trainers also helps, and I've found that too. There's a trainer here in Canada, Brad Paterson who has a TV show on Slice called "At the end of my leash" and he deals with both dog problems and the ensuing family problems that sometimes come with the territory. Anyway, just my 2 cents and the wonderful Mr. Millan.

[ChillisMom]

I don't like Brad Paterson, I've heard some not so good things about him.
If he ever tried to "train" my dog by kicking it, I'd tear him a new one. He's one person I wouldn't want near my dogs. He doesn't believe in treats either? He needs to come over to my house and see all the stuff Chilli learned with treats being a positive reward....

[battlemonkey]

I've never heard of Brad kicking dogs to train them. Every time I see him work with dogs, he does so by having the owners train them, not him. He may be harsh but he works on family issues as well, not just problem dogs.

[nikk]

Yeah gotta agree with Chilli on this one. You touch my dog any bad way, you better watch out. Don't worry about the pits watch out for Momma. I really hope this guy doesn't use any kind of physicality with anyone's animals. " you get better results with honey than you do vinegar.";)

[ChillisMom]

I've never heard of Brad kicking dogs to train them. Every time I see him work with dogs, he does so by having the owners train them, not him. He may be harsh but he works on family issues as well, not just problem dogs.

I've seen one episode where he has the dog on a leash sitting in front of him, and he just kicked its paws, for no reason at all I could see..... I think it was a Pomeranian but I'm not sure. I think there are far better ways to train dogs.

[battlemonkey]

I absolutely agree with you on that one, that's for sure. No dog deserves to be hit for any reason, it's just that I have not seen that side of him as of yet so I'm using some of his techniques on my dog. The best technique I've seen him use is the "embillical" (sp?) technique, which allows you to control your dog all while having the leash tied around your waist which makes your dog have to follow your every move and go with you where you go.

[ChillisMom]

Oh yeah I do that with Chilli too, it's part of "nothing in life is free", it works wonders!

[lovethatdogg]

i have never heard of "Brad", but i know Cesar uses some fisical contact. I personally do not have a problem with it and do not find it out of hand. The dog bite touch actually can work well. it really does snap a dog out of a trance. But i like it becuase it stimulates the "pack attention" like a real dog. But never does he, or i go over the line, in my opinion.:p

[battlemonkey]

I have started doing the "bite touch" on Jesse and it's worked a few times! Other times, I think it was my fault for not being calm assertive all the while doing it. But, he does work miracles and I would love to meet him someday. My fiance has bought me both his books and they're amazing! Lots of great info in them there books, I tell ya!

[lovethatdogg]

Ya, sometimes it works...but others, it starts a full on play tease! lol
I find it hard to stay calm and assertive...well, i always thing i am but reolise i am not, it really does make a hudge difference to bee calm and the domanant one. amazing

[CerbiesMom]

I lucked out bc my boy is very submissive to us. I tried the bite touch, and it reverted his training by several weeks. Since then, I've only done positive reinforcements, and he gets ignored when he's not doing the right thing. It all depends on the dog. I do agree with Ceasar about the excercise, discipline, then affection. That has worked wonders. I think the more physical stuff should only be done with dogs who need it.

[Corinthian]

I am one of those that finds his metods quite disturbing. Too much punishment, whether it is his kicking or hitting or "biting", he is using outdated ideas as was stated and his reliance on the myth of the alpha roll is dangerous.

I find his use of punishment on fearful dogs particularly disturbing and cruel.

[molliesmum]

Tried the bite touch on Molly, she cried as if I hurt her. Will never try it again, spent rest of night cuddling her:eek: I have heard that the dogs are walked for hours with someone, then passed back to Cesar when tired. Don't know if this is true, but Molly stops pulling on way back from long walk, so it could be. My son thinks he is great. Always telling me that Molly is more like a spoilt baby than a dog :confused: He thinks I should adopt some of his methods, I think Molly is perfect :D

[Corinthian]

I really don't like his show. He makes bold statement as if they were the absolute truth without any regard to the years of research and dozens of experts and number of scientific papers that indicate otherwise. He seems reluctant to learn any other methods and it looks like he will stick with what he picked up as child to carry him through. The man has no formal education in training and his background is not in training but in grooming and dog walking.

There is very little proof, outside his self-aggrandizing claim that he works with dogs that others have given up on or that they refuse to take - all we have for this is his word.

I stand by my first assertion that Millan punishes dogs for fear. There have been several episodes where the fearful dog is jerked so hard his feet come of the ground. I also consider shoving and forcing an animal toward the source of his fear while punishing it because it is protesting to be unusually cruel. But you are right, all that drama, fighting, barking makes for good TV. Television thrives in conflict and that is exactly what his show provides.

Millan bases his methods in 50-100 year old ideas of what dogs are like, luckily for us and our dogs we've learned a lot in that time, well at least most of us. Some like Millan are still peddling the same old tired ideas that have been debunked and are now rejected by all modern trainers. Dogs are not wolves.

Alpha wolves do not use physical corrections to maintain their status, that is just wrong and it comes from old research that has long been corrected. Among natural wolf packs the fights occur the low and mid ranking wolves, not with the leader. As Carmen Buitrago CPDT, CDT writes; ". In canine society, leadership is not won through brute physical domination."
Just as some owners/trainers anthropomorphosize their dogs, others lykomorphosize them. In reality dogs are neither wolves nor people. Treating them like either is bad training and does them a disservice.

You are also wrong about the rigid structure of dog packs. The work of Frank Beach who studied dog packs found that all male packs may have rigid structures, female pack are more fluid and when you mix the genders the rules become even more convoluted. So if you are training based on this idea of yours, then you are working from a false premise. And if you watch dogs closely they will chose their level of status based on how much they value a resource. So while a food driven dog will be "alpha" during dinner time, when it comes to affection or chasing balls or sleeping areas others will take the choice spots - it all depends on how much the value a particular resource..

[jhawk]

I have learned allot from watching Caesar. I have a pack of 6 dogs and had some behavior issues with them. Applying some of Caesars methods have made my dogs more manageable and better behaved, especially on walks. So what if he has no formal education. There are some trainers out there with formal education that are horrible. just because you have a piece of paper does not mean you understand dogs.

[Corinthian]

It goes far beyond not having any education, the real problem is that he does not understand dogs. If you watch the show, ignoring his and the narrator comments you will find the dog's body language regularly contradicts what he is saying. His descriptions of dog packs and social dynamics is also woefully outdated and blatantly inaccurate. He repeats the same tired lies about dominance which have long been disproven. His methods is a combinations of new age "The Secret" juju and old school jerk and yank.

[J. Hall]

.......................?

[buggis]

It goes far beyond not having any education, the real problem is that he does not understand dogs. If you watch the show, ignoring his and the narrator comments you will find the dog's body language regularly contradicts what he is saying. His descriptions of dog packs and social dynamics is also woefully outdated and blatantly inaccurate. He repeats the same tired lies about dominance which have long been disproven. His methods is a combinations of new age "The Secret" juju and old school jerk and yank.

Corinthian,
Have you read his books? Or, are you just basing your opinions about Cesar on his show? Also, what are your credentials? You sound very sure of yourself (which is not meant in a bad way.) I just would like to know what your beliefs are based on.

Personally, I like Cesar. I have read both of his books. And, I have read what his critics have said about him. I am not a dog psychologist myself, but what he says in his books makes perfect sense. Actually, I find it very enlightening.

[Corinthian]

Corinthian,
Have you read his books? Or, are you just basing your opinions about Cesar on his show? Also, what are your credentials? You sound very sure of yourself (which is not meant in a bad way.) I just would like to know what your beliefs are based on.

Personally, I like Cesar. I have read both of his books. And, I have read what his critics have said about him. I am not a dog psychologist myself, but what he says in his books makes perfect sense. Actually, I find it very enlightening.

I am fully familiar with his work, print and TV. There is nothing in either that is of any value that didn't go beyond the common sense of walking your dog.
And what is worse he spread so much misinformation about dogs and their behavior that he is risking both the lives of his adherents and their dogs. I could catalog all the things that are scientifically proven to be wrong - ie. not my opinion. Frankly, Millan is a fool, he repeats the same old nonsense that has was debunked ages ago, and uses some weird juju California new age philosophy about "energy" and "positive thinking" while at the same time jerking and jabbing the dog until it complies or shuts down.

Personally, I can;t believe how any reasonable person would take the advice of a dog groomer over that of a respected researcher and trainer like Ian Dunbar, or acclaimed trainer like Karen Pryor. And it is not just purely positive trainers that consider his theories nonsense.Well known trainers like Ed Frawley and World IPO Champion Ivan Balavanov also have not specifically spoken out on him but their writings clearly indicate they consider the techniuqes pushed by Millan to be cruel and outdated as does the American Humane Society.

What he write may make perfect sense to you but it is not based on any objective reality. His philosophy just does not match the facts.

[buggis]

Corinthian,

Please enlighten me. List a few of the major items that you would "catalog". Honestly, I am not challenging you. I have an open mind and I would just like to know some specifics.

[Corinthian]

The Alpha Roll: Millan says "Dogs practice this ritual of putting each into the ground"

This does not happen. if you missed it, here it is again. This does not happen.

I have seen this more accurately called the Omega or Beta roll. Because this is what really happens, one dog will willingly roll while the other will stand over it without touching it or possibly sniff the genitals and occasionally also do a mock "pin bite"

The only time a dog or wolf would forcibly do this to another is to kill it. It is not a correction as Millan likes to repeat and neither dogs nor wolves do it to assert dominance. This is why the dogs that Millan abuses this way fight, as far as they are concerned he is trying to kill them.

It is an error that can be traced back to the 1940s and was immediately disputed and later proven to be completely wrong. You'd think the folks at NG could provide him with some technical advice on the subject.

There is also his screwed up ideas about dominance, pack behaviour and learning theory - all wrong.

[Suz23]

Right havent read the thread so forgive me if I repeat anything thats been said, but I watched about an hours worth of tv on this guy today - I dont like him. watched a particularly interesting bit with three GSDS, i think the dog was put into a stressfull situation too soon - resulting on him turning on his pack mate.I agree with some of what he does,watching him with the gsds was interesting - his interpretation of the pack order and problems certainly wasnt mine, he said something about the bitch being the lower dog, from what i could she she was doing what any GOOD dog pack manager would do and that was diffuse the situation, she stepped in when the owner didnt, the male gsd backed down right away and stopped what he was doing - if she had got the praise she deserved she would of been a great help in sorting out the rivalry between the two male dogs, instead because she was a good girl and no bother, her position in the pack was completely overlooked.

I dont like his methods, that light kick he does a lot............why? And that sure as hell wouldnt work on every dog. Obviously I havent seen or read all his stuff, I dont think I want to, something about the way he works doesnt appeal to me, so yes very unimpressed considering all I had heard about him.

[Suz23]

And Corithian with you 100% on the so called 'Alpha Roll' I cannot think of anything more stupid to do than roll a dog who has show signs of being 'aggressive' there is no need.

[LoveMyLabs]

So provide your proof so it's not just an opinion to everyone else.

[Corinthian]

So provide your proof so it's not just an opinion to everyone else.


Read the studies of Frank Beach, Ian Dunbar, L.D Mech. When you get past those I can provide you with more researchers whose work also verifies my claim.

Can you find any work that supports Millan?

[LoveMyLabs]

Again, you name names but no articles, no websites, no credentials for these people or where they went to college or studied at.

Still, no proof.

I never said I supported him or not.

[Corinthian]

Again, you name names but no articles, no websites, no credentials for these people or where they went to college or studied at.

Still, no proof.

I never said I supported him or not.

Beach, Dunbar and Mech are all PhD who have done research into Dog packs, dog dynamics and wolf hierarchies respectively. Just because you don't know how to research the work of these people, don't blame me for your inadequacies.

[LoveMyLabs]

You are the one saying they are so good. Why should I have to research YOUR opinions? If you want someone to see you aren't full of $h!t then you should be willing to do the research yourself and post the articles that proove your point.

[LoveMyLabs]

Beach was mainly into studying sex and mammals according to the site I found. He was a psychologist - not necessarily a dog specialist.
http://www.muskingum.edu/~psych/psycweb/history/beach.htm

Dunbar I could see as having something decent to say, but there aren't any sites about him that I could find when typing in his name...none that were worthwhile at least.

As for Mech, it seems like he mainly dealt with wolves.

[k9mania]

Let's be careful not to attack. Corinthian is correct even the best Pit Bull can attack a dog. We had one on the flyball team and it would attack if not watched. It eventually attacked one of the older dogs in the person's family and killed it. Also every Pitt Bull owner on other flyball teams captures their dog when others are around after they finish their run. As a researcher, I can tell you then when making an informed decision based on research you cannot rely on only 1 researcher and must dig deeper because there is always critics of everyone's research. You should always look at the research that disagrees with your opinion and be open to other facts. But it also helps you know how your opponent will argue.:D

[LoveMyLabs]

I never said he was wrong. Then again I don't really care about Millan and his practices anyways. I simply requested proof/information regard Corinthian's opinions that he was stating as facts. That's all.

[1BadMal]

Actually he clams that 99% of animals can be rehabilitated. Not All!

[CorgiDad]

I think the bottom line is this. The man is a success. I don't think any one of us has a weekly TV show on Nat. Geo. or goes all over the country helping people in all walks of life (movie stars included) with their problem "children" nor do we have books and DVD's that sell like hot cakes. I believe he has a gift that few have and I'm impressed with his tenacity and guts. I wouldn't do half the things he does with a .45 Auto on my hip, much less just a tennis racket. There's no telling just how many dogs of all breeds he's saved from the vet's needle of death and personally, my hat's off to him. I wish we had more like him.

[k9mania]

That is true and he brings to the forefront that dogs don't need to be taken to shelters or euthanized...they can be trained.

[1BadMal]

I am working on becoming a professional trainer. My trainer is one of the best period and has trained with some of the most elite around the world. I only say that to say that one thing she is always reminding me of is "Once you know it all, you're done". She is 63 and has worked with dogs 40 yrs this year, she averages about 500 dogs per year, you can do the math.

I don't care if you are Ceasar Millian, K9 Mania, Corinthian, or who you are, we are always learning from someone and NO ONE knows it all, if you are, you just showed you dont. I think we can learn a little from every trainer and that will determine the skill you go to.

I know some people that can train a dog one way, and when that doesn't work they just think the dog is untrainable - NO, you just don't have the knowledge to get in the dogs head. However, on the flip side, if you deal just with psychology and not obedience than chances of your dog digressing back into bad behavior is emminet. So, in my opinion Ceasar has some good stuff and I am sure some bad stuff.

Eat the Meat and throw out the bones (Unless your a dog).

[LABLOVER500]

I like watching Cesar... I find some of the things he does quite interesting.. but have you noticed, a lot of the problems the dogs have is due to the owners (not every problem but a lot)... you can love a dog so much, but without the discipline and being the pack leader.. some of their fears/habits can get worse? and I also agree with the philosophy exercise, discipline and then love (although love gets to the top of the list most times with me)...some people adopt a dog and dont realize that you need to do more then just interact with them and love them, you have to train, discipline and exercise the stuffing outta them....Some people just dont know this yet, but when they do, the light goes on and then they have a harmonious home... just like little kids, they need boundaries..

I also believe (JMO) that every dog is different and not every "trainer/training method" will work for the same dog... Its kind of pick and choose, see who/what you are comfortable with, the results you get, how your dog is treated... kind of like buying a pair of shoes...but again, this is JMO...

[Corinthian]

I can't believe people are ready to suspend believe because the guy has a show... there are a lot of people that have show. Jerry Springer, Jenny Jones, Maury Povich; having a popular show is not an indication of competence. Nonsense sells; from psychics to healers and shock jocks ... all popular, all devoid of meaningful content. It may look scary to people but most of the time he is not in any danger. Except for the times he puts himself in by chasing, or manhandling the dogs; in which case he has it coming. When you know what a courageous dog committed to stand his ground and has no fear to bite looks like, you realize there is nothing particularly impressive or courageous in what he does.

[Sadie05]

In my personal opinion, Cesar Millan is great when it comes to rehabilitating dogs. What he has is a gift. I watch his shows on Fridays. There are some techniques that he does that I could careless about, but all in all, he’s great. I got his 2nd book today & looking forward to reading it. It also has some photos which is nice & also why I bought the book. I believe in the “Stay Calm & Assertive” and “Exercise, Discipline, and Affection… in that order" Phases.;) I read some of the appendix on " Mastering the Walk" on pg. 266 which caught my eye when skimming though the book. Very good information on how to properly walk your dog. His website also has some great info on alot of different topics :)

[J. Hall]

///................?

[grizzle]

I have a little different take on Cesar. Growing up in the late 50's early 60's people had dogs for two reasons. Either to hunt or to guard the house. There thrown table scraps out the back door. They slept outside anywhere they could out of the wind. Affection was given when you past by on your way to the truck, a pat on the head. A good dog was one that would stay at home, not dig, and would bark not bite when someone came over. Over time people like Cesar and many others have educated people about dogs and how to care for them and to bring them into our lives. I think he is great simply because he has managed to bring millions of people together for one hour and think about dogs. That in my book is something to strive for. We all have different styles of training and different opinions on behavior but very few have done what he has so far. I think his show will open up a lot more shows to come.

[Laura869]

I am one of those that finds his metods quite disturbing. Too much punishment, whether it is his kicking or hitting or "biting", he is using outdated ideas as was stated and his reliance on the myth of the alpha roll is dangerous.


I have to agree with you. Reading this thread I was thinking to myself "am I the only one who doesn't like Ceasar?" I'm glad to find there is one other.

I think it is wonderful that Ceasar is there to help dogs who are far beyond "regular" help methods, but my problem with him is this...

The general public does not know much about dog training. They see this man who is "miraculously" fixing dogs, and think that his methods are the best way, when in reality, if we have a puppy, positive reinforcement will fix almost any problem. We don't have to go to the extremes that Ceasar uses to fix typical dog issues, whether they are puppies or older.

Also, I hate his little "kick" on the butt. How many people do you think are out there kicking their dog on the butt to get its attention, when a simple "watch me" command could help?

Like I said, I do think some of his stuff is good...exercise, discipline, then affection...helping aggressive dogs...being calm when working with the dogs. However, MOST dogs do not need his kind of intervention for them to be helped, and the general public does not understand that when watching someone like Ceasar.

[Weesha1717]

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h142/weesha1717/HAHAHA.jpg