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View Full Version : Choke Chain on Yorkie?


buggis
09-12-2007, 02:44 PM
I have been taking my 8 lb yorkie mix to obedience classes in which we use choke chains. Yesterday, my dog (Bear) was not behaving well, refusing to walk around in our circle. I asked my instructor for help. She tried to walk Bear, and when he wouldn't budge, she yanked on his leash to the degree that both of his feet left the floor. She did this continuously, as Bear absolutely refused to walk forward for her. When I asked my instructor if she was hurting him, she got very mad at me for questioning her training. Apparently, she has "been training dogs for 30 years", therefore, I shouldn't question her methods. I ended up taking my dog and walking out of the class.

I have heard that if used incorrectly, a choke chain can damage the windpipe of a dog, especially a small dog. Do you think I was over-reacting to this training method? It just seems to me that it was inhumane and ineffective. Even if Bear did comply, I think he would have done so out of fear, rather than out of respect. Do you have any advice for me? I would really appreciate it, as I work very hard with my dog and want to do what is best for him.

LabMomHouston
09-12-2007, 04:52 PM
I would have done the same...walked out. I think any trainer should be open to questioning their methods. If at any point you feel uncomfortable with how your dog is being treated its your duty to protect the animal. We would do that for our children, right? I use the same type of collar on my older Lab, but he's 97lbs and has a roll of fat around his neck that I don't think can be penetrated. I don't know if I would use it on a dog that size. In fact when we were in obedience class I don't remember seeing a dog that small using one. Our trainer was very concerned about using the collar appropriately as well. I don't see how jerking the dog off the floor is appropriate. I am sure we have a number of trainers on the site tho that may be able to give you a much better opinion. However, I know you must be comfortable with the trainer and training otherwise its not effective for you or the dog.

kellynharley
09-12-2007, 05:18 PM
i don't think u were over-reacting and the lady should not have got mad at you for voicing concern over your dogs well being. I think you did the right thing, hope you find a better and kinder trainer

Suz23
09-12-2007, 07:18 PM
No dog needs a choke chain - used incorrectly they can be incredibly damaging - and you were restrained with the 'trainer' shed have been in a whole heap of trouble had she ever done that to my dog- training isnt about forcing a dog to do something rather than the dog WANTING to do something - she could do well to learn that.

6dogmom
09-12-2007, 11:23 PM
I also had that happen to me. The lady picked up my dog by the leash and choked her until I said to let go. I walked off, never to return again. I would find a trainer that uses only possitive training methods. There is one in my area that does not believe in the word "no" She is a great trainer. Find on like that, also ask if you can sit in on a couple sessions before you enroll in the class. You can see what you are getting then. If they don't let you I would look elsewhere.

lovethatdogg
09-13-2007, 01:52 AM
NO. I really thing choke chanes are not a good us of metal! lol
Exspecially on a yorkie. These dogs should loose leash walk or be trained easily.

It is gorgous for a look like this...or for a way to dress up or show your dog.... http://www.fordogtrainers.com/productimages/pictures/dog-collar/chain-dog-collar/hs/dog-choke-collar-no-toggle/panzer/choke-dog-collar-panzer.jpg

But definatly not for this....http://www.muttmart.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Choke_Collars.gif

or this.....http://www.gundogsonline.com/Img%5CProShop%5CDepartments%5CPinchCollars.jpg

I hate to see them being used to control a dog, i do not really think this is the way to go about it.

lovethatdogg
09-13-2007, 01:55 AM
No dog needs a choke chain - used incorrectly they can be incredibly damaging - and you were restrained with the 'trainer' shed have been in a whole heap of trouble had she ever done that to my dog- training isnt about forcing a dog to do something rather than the dog WANTING to do something - she could do well to learn that.
This is such a strong and well put point. I apsolutl;y love the way suz rote this!

janice
09-13-2007, 01:20 PM
yes well put , cant believe they even put a chain on a smaller dog they have delicate thraots could of caused damage to your little one , glad you've choosen not to go back

k9mania
09-13-2007, 02:10 PM
Good for you. If more people would stand up against such trainers when they have a gut feeling it is wrong those trainers would no longer be in business. You should be commended.:cool:

buggis
09-13-2007, 02:55 PM
Thank you so much to everyone who responded to my post. I am going to write a letter to the Kennel Club where this happened and, along with it, send your comments as well. (I won't include names or anything, of course.) I am also going to look for a trainer that uses positive training methods. Thanks for the advice.

rocky
09-13-2007, 06:35 PM
no you are not overreacting i would have done the same thing an i would report this trainer to your local aspca or shelter in your area and yes these collars can hurt a dog so little good luck with the little guy hope you find a better class

Suz23
09-13-2007, 06:59 PM
Thanks Lovethatdog

Trouble is there are stil people training this way - its very old fashioned and while it can have some results and the dog is morderatly changed most dogs dont do well with that sort of training. However unless people make a stand like your doing they will continue so good on you for doing something about it.

dobetaztic
09-14-2007, 02:06 PM
good for you walking out this type of training is oldfashioned and barbaric it makes me so angry :mad: i used to go to a club like that but i soon learned different methods, of training and have so much more success. look for a trainer that is certified by the APDT they monitor trainers ensuring that they only use positive training methods and they revoke their recomendation if they disproove of their methodsw. good luck in finding a new trainer:)

katrina
09-14-2007, 06:03 PM
all my dogs use harnesses the only dog i have ever used a choke chain on was my huskey becuase of the shape of her head she could get out of any collar and when she got out she ran like there was no tomorrow. this was not a street smart dog and we where terrified she would get hit by a car the choke chain would not come off when she pulled back to try to get off the leash. she was already a year when we rescued her and a very strong dog so this was our only option. when she got older and walked better we would put a harness on her and she would pull me on my roller skates.

Carol
09-28-2007, 04:11 PM
I have a Cocker Spaniel who weighs a lot more than a yorkie.
My vet warned me never to attach a leash to her collar because
she was developing a cough from pressure on her neck bone.
She suggested for both my med sized dogs to always use a halter and leash to that. It works great for us.
I do not believe in choke chains except for dogs with huge chests and very strong neck muscles.
Special halters can be bought for dogs that pull excessively like Labs etc.
I had a leather Halti for my previous dog, a 120 lb. Lab.
They work wonders ans the correction forces their head down instead of pulling on their neck.

jhawk
11-27-2007, 07:58 PM
I don't have a problem with choke chains if they are used properly. they can't be a great tool for traing a dog to walk next to you without pulling. Again they need to be used properly. i would not recoment them for a tiny dog like a yorky though. I was originally opposed to chokers because i saw too many people walking their dogs with them and strangling the dog but my Mom showed me the proper way to train with them ( she used to show Danes) and it worked for my dogs.

CerbiesMom
11-27-2007, 09:47 PM
Good for you. I hope that the trainer gets in all kinds of trouble, and hopefully you encouraged some other ppl in the class to question the training methods. I have a 45lb dog, and I don't need a choke chain, or even a leash anymore to keep him by my side. It's all about the relationship.

LabpupsUK
11-27-2007, 09:49 PM
Well done for walking out, if no one complains some of the old-fashioned trainers will never update their methods.

After all it needs to be in the dogs best interests.

LoveMyLabs
11-27-2007, 09:53 PM
I concur. You should never have been put in the position of having a choke chain required, much less having the so-called trainer yank your dog off the floor and get mad at you. Obviously that woman is NOT a good trainer, regardless of "30 years of training".
Your dog could have been choked, gotten windpipe damage, or had something pulled out of socket being yanked that hard. The woman deserves to be fired and never able to train again.

buggis
11-27-2007, 10:37 PM
Hi Everyone.

It has been months since that terrible experience with the choke chain. Since then, Bear and I have completed a class that uses only positive reinforcement methods. We plan to continue taking classes with this particular trainer, who is absolutely fantastic! I found that the positive methods work much better with my dog and have not used a choker since that incident. Thanks for all of your support!

atlbravesfan391
12-02-2007, 04:14 AM
I've only used a choke chain on one of my dogs, and it didn't do any damage to her. She didn't like it, but it didn't do any damage... as for a yorkie, i'm not sure if I'd do that to such a small dog, but what must be done must be done I suppose...

LoveMyLabs
12-02-2007, 06:23 AM
braves - there is no reason that a yorkie, or any small breed dog, should have to have a choke chain on it. Even if they are hard headed...it makes no sense. It's not like they are going to drag you around or anything. You can put a head halter or body harness and get much better results...even with medium and large breed dogs.

saveawolf
12-02-2007, 12:18 PM
I hate to see them being used to control a dog, i do not really think this is the way to go about it. No dog needs a choke chain this mack's me said you did this to a poor small dog :(

molliesmum
12-02-2007, 02:35 PM
Wasn't there a thread a couple of weeks ago about choke chains. If I remember rightly, the poster was warning against them. Aparently her dog had jumped over a fence and the chain caught, choking the dog to death. When she checked up, it would seem that many people had lost dogs using these chains. One included a dog that was wearing one, another dog got caught up in the choke chain and the owners couldn't free them. The one wearing chain choked to death.

Tuckerdad
12-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Better believe you did the right thing, I gave my om a Yorkie a few years ago, and if anyone EVER did that to her I wold put that choke chain onthem and sho them how it felt to be yanked around.

J. Hall
12-02-2007, 04:52 PM
You dont want to hear my opinion on choke chaines. That is crazy if someone did that to my dog, Sorry I would go to jail. As within 30 seconds the instructor would be wearing the collar man or woman and I would drag that person all over the entire area until they lost their footing. Then I would look at them and say why wont you walk with me? whats wrong? seriously I would flip out:mad: And hurt that person and then you say they got mad with you WOW 30 years of making dogs so scared of you that of course they will react !!!Their scared:( Oh well to each their own. Again I do believe a leash is to use as a tie down for a very short period of time or as a tool ,to say' get from the car to the beach. Im under the impression my hounds think I dont trust them if I try to lead them around by their neck. And I thaught of the windpipe thing I could imagine it would do damage over time, Saying their is a constant presure on the windpipe. But i a rookie so dont take my word for it! James Hall Sr.

CerbiesMom
12-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Congrats! Good job going to the positive reinforcement class.I hung my dog's certificate up when he graduated his petsmart class. Then I realized that I did a better job than the petsmart trainer, so I didn't enroll him anymore, and we've had a great time learning together.

sparky
12-22-2007, 04:43 PM
Good for you. I would have done the same thing. My yorkie wore a delicate choke chain for macho appearance only. I used a harness for walks and training sessions. I never gave it a thought that he could have gotten hung up on something and choked to death cause I always was with him when he was outside. I would imagine any kind of collar that gets caught could possibly be life-threating.

Nola0841
12-23-2007, 03:09 AM
I have a yorkie as well and could never imagine using a choke chain on her. You are right about their throat being real sensitive. I can only imagine how bad that could hurt them. I like also how you want her to learn out of respect not fear. That is the right way to go!

lamper
12-23-2007, 03:33 PM
How disgusting that a so called trainer would advise putting a choke chain on such a small dog. Years ago with my first GSD I attended a class which was a branch of the BAGSD which encouraged the use of choke chains, and many of the dogs got jerked about quite savagely. While, to my knowledge, none of the dogs were ever injured, I now would not and do not use a choke chain, but use a half choke, which does not tighten on the dogs neck. This is quite adequate for training purposes, and cannot harm the dog.

yammez
01-20-2008, 01:56 AM
I have a small dog as well, and in reading a magazine about small dogs, it does indeed state that the use of choke collars can damage their windpipes. I would also have walked out to find help elsewhere.

BetterDog4U
01-20-2008, 03:36 AM
Wasn't there a thread a couple of weeks ago about choke chains. If I remember rightly, the poster was warning against them. Aparently her dog had jumped over a fence and the chain caught, choking the dog to death. When she checked up, it would seem that many people had lost dogs using these chains. One included a dog that was wearing one, another dog got caught up in the choke chain and the owners couldn't free them. The one wearing chain choked to death.
When I was training my Dalmation, (15 yrs ago) a local trainer told me that the use of a "choke chain" would be fine ONLY under several conditions.

1. NEVER pull or yank the dog when you have a CC on the dog. It can cause damage to the wind pipe.
2. ALWAYS put the CC on correctly, so the chain will release when the tension is off of the leash.
3. It is a training tool ONLY ... NEVER leave one on the dog when the dog is not supervision because it can get hooked on something and the dog could easily choke to death.
4. If you are "short" on patience, Do NOT use this tool, hire a trainer.

He went on to explain that if this tool is use correctly it will produce a ringing noise as it begins to go tight. The dog will hear the "ring" and shortly realize this comes as the chain goes tight and will stop pulling to keep the ringing from happening.

I used a "choker" only when training "the walk" and it worked in a short time for me ...... and I hever came close to hurting my dog.

IMHO, No matter what tool you use to train your dog, it all comes down to using some common sence. If you dont have any of that, PLEASE, go buy a goldfish ....... :D

BichonFowner
02-22-2008, 07:26 PM
I don't use a choke chain on my dog but after reading a lot of people's comments and the damage it causes, what about walking your dog on a leash using a collar? When I was teaching my dog to walk correctly on a leash (by my side) the puppy trainer said to pull them back if they try to go ahead of you and the coughing/gagging sound is okay and that they would learn. Have I caused damage to my dog's windpipe's? She was an advocate for "two hand leash".