Weimardoodle!

[lovethatdogg]

Thsi is such a silly looking dog!
Scroll down to the picture on this site!
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/weimardoodle.htm

[LabMomHouston]

That dog is very goofy looking. Poor thing. Very interesting info on the site about the temperament can be any combination of what is normally in each breed and dogs can be multi generational...not 50% of each. Wasn't that the debate in the other thread about hybrids?

[lovethatdogg]

Yup, alot of it was. I think.... it all kindda confuses me! I just though the picture was silly!

[LoveMyLabs]

Just another case of someone out to make quick money with a mixed breed given a cutsie name. Poor dog probably has more health problems that either breed and more temperament issues than can be imagined. 50-50 my pink bottom. You can't guarantee a mixed breeds temperament, build, looks or anything else.

[lovethatdogg]

Ya, but it could be an accadent. Think about is, yor dog ran away, mated, and you found her. Not your fault. But all you wan to do is give this ugly, dumb looking dog, a nice life. The best you can. Try finding him on the enternet, looking to save a life!:p
But i do understand were people can make a buck or two of the Puggle.

[LoveMyLabs]

I just looked at that picture. :o That is one ugly puppy, I'm sorry to say.
If you've ever heard of Dr. Seuss...he reminds me of the Who's...Who 1 and Who 2. Poor dog doesn't even look happy really. He looks like he knows something is wrong with him and feels bad about it.

[ChillisMom]

Yuck, what a mess. That poor dog... :(

[LoveMyLabs]

An accident is one thing. But if it was only an accident people wouldn't call it a "weimerdoodle" they'd call it a weimeraner and poodle cross and admit it was an accident. There are actual "breeders" of these kinds of mutts. They have a canine hybrid association that will let you get papers on these dogs if you want them. It is not just an accident thing...trust me.
Our local paper has an ad for a 'chiweenie' for sale for $100. If it was an accident they wouldn't ask $100 or be calling it a cutsie name.

[lovethatdogg]

Ya, that makes sense, but if i mixed a cocker spaniel and a lab... i want a silly name like Labcer of something. I think people breed different dogs, mabe by accadent, but try to pull it off as a purebreed because it is cute...(in this case no). I do not think my post makes sense...oh well. sorry

[lovethatdogg]

The weird thing is...on this breed site. I went to the purebreed section...and puggle was not one of them. But this was..... i think because it is kindda cute!
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/pudelpointer.htm

[LabMomHouston]

What is a chiweenie??? What mix?

[ChillisMom]

Things like this make me seriously worry about the future of dogs...

[skippygurl00]

the name sounds almost like wheresmydoodle?:eek:
poor dog!

[skippygurl00]

What is a chiweenie??? What mix?
my guess a chihuahua cross dachsund

[LabpupsUK]

I have to, admit poodles are not a fav of mine and when I was looking for Murphy (hadn't decided on another lab at that point) I was surprised how many cross poodle breeds were for sale, labradoodles are quite comment, but never heard of a cockerpoo before.

Why do people do this, just to try and get a curly coat on a straight haired dog?? :confused:

[dobetaztic]

they cross with poodles to reduce malting and allagies, as for this mix breeding i donot agrree with but atleast there are less dogs going for free so poeple are somewat serious if they spen money on a cross breed but i do not agree with it and am i the only one that actually thought the dog was cute i like shaggy dogs not that you can tell when you look at all mine and they certainly dont look like their owner :o

[LabpupsUK]

Ah thats the reason

I did think he was kind of cute, but to be honest he just brought back my bad memories from when I had a perm that was probably the worse decision I've ever made!

[ChillisMom]

Ah thats the reason

I did think he was kind of cute, but to be honest he just brought back my bad memories from when I had a perm that was probably the worse decision I've ever made!

Omg, I remember when I got a perm... My hair stayed curly and it had to grow out, horrible!

[lovethatdogg]

hhmmmm, ya, makes me worried about our dog future too. There are going to be so many unheathely sick mixes because of what people are doing. Fine, mixes do not bug me that much....but one of these days it is going to cause a bigger problem.... mabe dogs will only live like 5 years because all there health probllems.

Sorry about those perm guys...sounds awful:(

[LoveMyLabs]

In 1881, a German breeder, Baron von Zedlitz, worked on producing his ideal tracking, pointing, and retrieving gun dog, suitable for work on both land and water. From seven specific Poodles (pudel in german) and nearly 100 different pointers, he developed the Pudelpointer. The original sire was Tell, an English Pointer belonging to Kaiser Frederick III and the original dam was a German hunting pudel named Molly who was owned by Hegewald, an author known for works on hunting dogs.

The Poodle breed had much stronger genes, and so many more Pointers were used to achieve the balanced hunting dog that was desired. A mix of 11 Pudels and 80 Pointers was used during the first 30 years.

The breed was introduced to North America in 1956 by Bodo Winterhelt, who still today remains very involved in maintaining the breed standard. His Winterhelle Kennel was the foundation of the breed in North America. In 1977 Winterhelt founded the Pudelpointer Club of North America in Canada.

Although it is an excellent breed with no major faults, it has never become a popular or well-known breed. In Germany, its performance standards are its most important traits and each dog must pass a test of its field skills to be registered as a Pudelpointer.

[LoveMyLabs]

a chiweenie is a chihuahua and a dachsund (or weiner dog as they are known around here)

[chesapeake]

Here in the UK, breeders of Labradors are intentionally crossing their dogs with Standard Poodles to create Labradoodles, as they can sell Labradoodle puppies for over twice the amount that they can sell their pure-bred Kennel Club registered Labradors, as the demand is so high for them. The same applies to the Cockerpoo, the Jackapoo, and the Springador!!

IT'S A MAD WORLD!!!!!

[Wolfwalker]

If the reasoning behind deliberatly crossing into Poodle lines is to reduce moulting and alergens then why don't these people just buy a Poodle. :confused: Problem solved without having to mess about with mixed genes. They also come in three handy sizes to fit any household.

You may wish to substitute Schnauzer for the word Poodle in the above - it works just as well. :D

[k9mania]

Good point!! I pointed that out to a friend that has a doctor who what a something doodle just for allergen reduction. I said he should have gotten a poodle. Also even if it were an accident, there are many smart enough to give them the labdoodle, chiweiner, just to make money off the mistake knowing what people are willing to pay.:eek:

[LabMomHouston]

:) Wolfwalker...I agree with K9 that's a really good point!

[LoveMyLabs]

I know that most breeds, if not all, came from being mixed with something else. However, our recognized breeds (as we know them today) took years, decades, etc. to standardize and breed a specific purpose into them (not to mention health and temperment).
Why do people think that just because they mix 2 breeds that they are creating this great new breed that should cost 2 - 3x as much as an actual registered purebred? It's insane.

[ChillisMom]

^ Exactly, and when a dog didn't have the particular trait that the person was looking for that dog was killed or maybe neutered so it couldn't procreate and mess up the gene pool. I doubt the breeders of "labradoodles" are putting to sleep the ones that aren't hypoallergenic and just don't cut it, they probably just breed what is available regardless... I don't think a lot of people realize what hard work and dedication it took to create the breeds we have today.

If they were putting to sleep all the puppies that weren't good enough, I might take them seriously...

[johnanddoggies]

I personaly dont like it when people mix breeds to come up with fasionable dogs for a specific look if your going for special traits like senting abilitys or hearding skills thats onething .there are plenty of good muts out there full of love for any family but being the person of a pure bread weimaraner from the city of wimer I do not think this breed mixes well. but thats my opnion :)

[J. Hall]

Why in the heck would someone breed a long haired dog to a short haired dog Makes no sence:confused: The dog dont look bad I guess but it sure is a weird cross:p

[LoveMyLabs]

I don't think they should put the pups to sleep. That just seems a little to much to me. However, if they were genuine breeders trying to make a genuine "new breed" they should take responsibility for the throwbacks that aren't what they are supposed to be (hypoallergenic, low/no shed, specific purpose, size, traits, health, etc) and have them spayed/neutered and GIVEN to loving homes that don't care if they get a mutt...or keep the dogs themselves, since they "created" them and take responsibility for what they are doing.

[kellynharley]

it amazes me why people will mix breeds, found this add on a puppy search site the pups were priced at £475
Hush bassets:
Basset Hound and Cocker Spaniel cross puppies. Bothparents KC registered from Cruft winning lines. Popular in USA but new and rare in UK, known as Hush Bassets. I expect them to be under 20kg and less than 13 inches tall. They make excellent family pets because they don't drool like the Basset hounds, and they don't have a strong sense of smell which means they are easier to train and much more obedient than Basset Hounds. There were 10 in the litter, 8 weeks old, well-loved.

The person can't guarentee the height of them or the weight so what happens if they grow bigger then she expects or god forbid that it does actually drool (Harley doesn't drool just gets a bit slobery sometimes which i think is cute lol)

There was another add for a basset x springer spaniel they were £800 and they emphasised their trainability, I think bassets are trainable, harley was toilet trained by 10 weeks, will come when called (usually cos he gets a treat everytime but it works), knows sit and does great on his lead cos he doesn't pull, i sometimes probably look like i'm pulling him down the street cos he's trying to sniff everything, if people want easily trainable dogs get one that's known for it. That's my rant done now but i just keep thinkin what happens when they don't turn out like expected? Harley didn't look like a basset till he was 5-6 weeks old and even now his colouring is changing so that he's getting more brown areas.

[chesapeake]

Loved your rant Kelly, it made me LOL.

Here in Derbyshire, a Labradoodle costs more than a Standard Poodle, and over twice what a Labrador would cost you. The same applies to Cockerpoos, Jackapoos and Terrierdors!

My theory is that alot of people prefer a cross breed dog, believing that they will be healthier (is that fact, or folklore?), and won't have inherited problems like hip dysplasia, skin conditions etc which plague some of the pedigree breeds, but they still want a dog with a "label". Our modern society does insist on labelling doesn't it.....

My children play "spot the dog" to pass the time on long journeys in the car(as I did as a child...... 1 point for each dog breed named before their siblings can spot and name the dog). We use "Heinz" for any dog which is cross-bred, as when I was a child, Heinz had 57 varieties (there's probably more now??)

Is "Heinz" a more politically correct word than cross-breed, or dare I say mongrel?

Of course, all our breeds were of the Heinz variety at one point, prior to receiving an official breed standard.... Perhaps in 50 years time, a Labradoodle will win Crufts??:eek:

[rocky]

not two breeds that i think should be mixed anyone out there that knows the ins and outs of both these breeds would most likely agree

[J. Hall]

I agree not a good pair:eek:

[LoveMyLabs]

Really though, are ANY of these 2 purebreed mixes "good" mixes? I seriously doubt it. None have any purpose, all look pretty silly, no conformation, no standards, same amount of (or more) health problems *since you are putting 2 different breeds of health issues in one puppy*, no health certs, less than 75% of the so called hypoallergenic low/no sheds are actually what they claim.
So many things wrong with mixing two purebreds...it's not even funny.

chesapeake - it's folklore that a mix will be healthier than a purebred. Think about it...you mix two breeds that each have their own health issues. Do you really think these health issues are going to go away? Not a chance. And yes, it's PC to say mongrel, mutt, mix. That's what they are anyways.

[Wolfwalker]

it's folklore that a mix will be healthier than a purebred.

So you don't subscribe to the scientific evidence of Heterosis (Hybrid Vigor)? :confused:

[ChillisMom]

These aren't hybrids though...

[Wolfwalker]

Well I don't want to argue, but I think that is just what they are according to any dictionary definition:

(n) : Offspring resulting from cross-breeding different entities, e.g. two different species or two purebreed parent strains; something of mixed origin or composition

My intention was to open up the debate on Hybridisation. I have stated my opinion elswhere on the K9 forum. That is that I agree that there are too many people carrying out irrisponsible breeding to feed this fad when there are already existing purebred dogs to fit into anyones circumstances. I also subscribe to the people that want something "original" only need to go to their local shelter. ;)

[chesapeake]

Without getting myself embroiled in a forum argument, I am posting this link for information only....... I found it's contents interesting.

To verify my position on this topic, I love all animals, not just dogs, and appreciate a well-mannered friendly dog, no matter what it's genetic heritage may be.

http://www.poodleclubcanada.com/goldendoodles.html.

[molliesmum]

As some of you know,my sister has Labradoodles. I can only say that the Labradoodles I have met through walks and meets are wonderful dogs with great temprement and to be honest, I think they are really great looking dogs. The owners I know, know there is no way of knowing what there coat will look like, but they take this on board when they get the dogs.
I would also like to say that all the dogs I have met have had hip scores, eye scores and full health checks.
There are very few,if any Labradoodles in shelters that I am aware of, this in itself should give credit to the fact that owners accept what their pups will turn out like.
As for health risks, Mia and her friends in my pics are as healthy as any dogs I have met.
I really don't want this to turn into slanging match, just feel that there a two sides to every story.

[ChillisMom]

I guess my definition of a hybrid is different then. To me a hybrid is when two things of a different species produce offspring.

[kellynharley]

I think hybrids can't reproduce, you don't get mules reproducing with mules as they are born sterile, can't remember where i got this from but it was probably during a class i did at college about breeding and genetics. If i'm wrong someone please correct me.

[miasmumjo]

I have just joined this site and even introduced myself and now wish I hadn't after reading your threads. :(
I own a Labradoodle and bought her because 1. I love labs but didn't want all the moulting. 2. The curly breeds ie. Poodles, Terriers ect. I didn't like. Sorry if I have offended anyone here.
I didn't realise until I read some of your opinions that I was joining a bigoted site. I LOVE LABRADOODLES and all other dogs and wouldn't dream of slating people for the dogs they own.

Jo
www.flickr.com/photos/miakuntakinty/

ps. I bred off Mia and had 6 beautiful Healthy pups which were practically given away to loving people.

[Wolfwalker]

Kelly you are right in the case of mules being sterile as they are hybrids of two very distinct animals (Horse & Donkey). When they are closer genetically e.g. Wolf and a dog they are not usually sterile but they are not crossbreeds or mongrels but hybrids. We have a hybrid Grey Wolf/European Wolf (which are distinct sub species) and he "fires on all cylinders". :D Though he can not be used for breeding as he could never exist in the wild as the two types could never naturally meet. The reason I know he is not sterile is because fertility checks were done proir to having him vasectomised.

Just to clear up my reasoning here is a definition from: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3822

Hybrid: The word "hybrid" has a number of different biomedical meanings.
In transmission genetics, a hybrid is the result of a cross between two genetically dissimilar parents. The offspring of unlike parents. If the parents are sufficiently dissimilar, the hybrid may be sterile (for example, in the crossing of horse and donkey to produce a mule).
In cell genetics, a hybrid cell is one that contains components from one or more genomes (other than zygotes and their derivatives). Hybrid cells may be formed by several techniques including cell fusion, the fusion of two or more cells.
In molecular genetics, a hybrid DNA molecule is a DNA molecule with strands of different origin.

Jo - I'm sorry if thoughtless remarks have made you think badly of this forum. I know that one or two thoughtless posts can put you off the whole thing. I've been there, as have a few others. Please don't let your feelings extend to everyone here. Mostly the crew here are a good bunch. ;)

[LoveMyLabs]

Hybrid vigor is a myth. It has NOT been scientifically proven. Breeding two purebred dogs with health problems, or the possibility of genetic health problems, gives you the same amount if not double the chance of getting those health problems in the pups.
A hybrid (until these designer dogs came about) was/is defined as the mating of two different species (i.e. horse and donkey = mule) A dog and a dog is not a hybrid, just a mutt.

We all have our opinions but it's common knowledge that all the doodles and puggles of the world end up in the shelter just as much, if not more than, the purebreds do. People spend mega $$$ on a mixed breed that they think is a "new breed" and find out its not so they give the dog up...or it ends up with multiple health problems and they give it up...or, through false advertising they end up with a dog that is NOT hypoallergenic or shed free and they give it up.

If you want a mutt, go to a shelter. And, just because someone does the health certs doesn't make it right to mix purebred dogs. The pups have no standards, no conformation, the same (if not more) chance of health problems, varying coat colors and lengths, no hypoallergics', no shed frees', etc, etc. Just a mutt in cute name clothing.

[LoveMyLabs]

In the late 1990's the late geneticist Dr. George Padgett found more hereditary diseases in cross bred dogs than is found in the Cocker Spaniel. His findings were printed in a several issues of Dog World Magazine.

In the late 1990's the late geneticist Dr. George Padgett found more hereditary diseases in cross bred dogs than is found in the Cocker Spaniel. His findings were printed in a several issues of Dog World Magazine.

The Myth of Hybrid Vigor in Dogs

by Karen Peak

The concept of hybrid vigor assumes that a crossbred animal (and this term is most often used in discussing dogs) will be healthier than a purebred. In reality, this is often false.

In order to be a hybrid, an animal must be the product of two different species: donkey and a horse, offspring is a mule; lion (m) and a tiger (f), offspring is a liger; tiger (m) and lion (f), offspring is a tigon; wolf and domestic dog, offspring is called a wolf hybrid. Remember high school Biology, animal classification: Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, and Species? Each animal in the crosses mentioned share the same Family (Equus, Felis, Canis) but are different species. The offspring are hybrids. Domestic dogs are the same species familiaris. When you cross breed domestic dogs (Canis familiaris ), you are within the same species; therefore, not creating a hybrid.

A breed is not a separate species, it is just a set of genes specifically bred to exhibit certain traits like the coat an Old English Sheepdog has or the build of a Rottweiler. With C. Familiaris, we just took traits in dogs of the same species and developed them to various breeds. An example that may clarify this: all humans are Homo sapiens regardless of color, eye shape, etc. Nature helped develop certain traits to best suit the environment the H. sapiens were developing in. All domestic dogs are C. Familiaris; we just developed them into different breeds. Species is the same but there are differences based on need.

What determines a breed in the loosest sense is that when bred to another of the same breed, you will end up with the same traits. When you breed a German Shepherd Dog to another GSD, you only get GSDs. You will not get something that looks like a Labrador Retriever. If you cross a GSD and a Lab, you can get offspring that look more GSD, more Lab or resemble both parents in varying ways. With purebreds you have a predictable outcome. With crosses, you do not. It takes many generations to fix the traits in a new breed – not just four or five. For example, the Shetland Sheepdog, a breed from the Shetland Isles is NOT a miniaturized Collie. But the Sheltie is a breed that is only about 100 years old – relatively new. Collie was crossed into the early Sheltie to add to certain traits, but this also added the problem of oversized Shelties – something breeders have struggled with for many decades to correct due to the infusion of Collie blood into a developing breed.

Crossbred dogs such as the Cock-a-poo are NOT hybrids nor are they breeds. The Cock-a-poo Club of America states in its guidelines that in order to be a cock-a-poo, that you breed Cocker (American or English) to a Toy or Miniature Poodle. This is not a breed; it is a cross – a mutt. Cock-a-poos may look very Poodle, very Cocker or somewhere in between. Even a Cock-a-poo bred to a Cock-a-poo is not a breed. Remember, it can take decades or more to get true-breeding traits – or to repair damage done when something else is crossed in during the early history of a breed just beginning to come together.

Back to Hybrid Vigor: is it true? No. Returning to the cock-a-poo example. Poodles and Cockers have many of the same health problems; therefore, a cross of them might actually stand a higher risk of inheriting a problem than a purebred pup from a good breeder. Some of the problems in both breeds are: hip dysplasia, progressive retinal atrophy, epilepsy, poor temperaments, allergies, skin and ear problem, Legg-Calve-Perthe's, luxating patellas, hypothyroidism, cryptorchidism, gastric torsion ( Cock-a-poos, Cindy Tittle Moore, 1997). Yes, things like ear infections, allergies, temperaments and gastric torsion have hereditary as well as environmental influences.

Now, why did I state a cross might stand a higher risk of a hereditary problem than a dog from a good breeder? Rarely do people breeding crosses do any health tests – genetic or otherwise. They assume that an annual veterinarian visit and shots are all that is needed. Maybe for a pet dog, but breeders need to consider the genetic health of puppies produced. Things such as Hip and Elbow Dysplasia, Luxating Patellas, various eye problems, von Willebrand's (a bleeding disorder) and Thyroid function are common in many, many breeds and crosses. The myth that purebreds are unhealthy or nasty came about due to bad breeders who either did not care about health testing or who were ignorant and felt that dogs who show no outward signs of a problem do not have it. A purebred dog from a good and educated source has a greater chance of being healthier than a crossbred.

So, the next time you hear about hybrid vigor and how mutts are healthier, remember this: hybrid vigor as related to dogs is a myth.

[LabMomHouston]

Didn't we have this arguement before and just agree to disagree???

[LoveMyLabs]

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMillsVA/Poo-dogs___Designer_Mutts/Practical_Genetics/practical_genetics.html

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMillsVA/Poo-dogs___Designer_Mutts/Health_Issues_in_Designer_Mutt/health_issues_in_designer_mutt.html

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/NoPuppyMillsVA/Poo-dogs___Designer_Mutts/poo-dogs___designer_mutts.html

http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/poodle/labradoodle.htm

or read Control of Canine Genetic Disorders by Dr. George A Padgett

[Wolfwalker]

A hybrid (until these designer dogs came about) was/is defined as the mating of two different species (i.e. horse and donkey = mule) A dog and a dog is not a hybrid, just a mutt.

Yet a couple of days later you use the word a couple of times in the "Designer Dogs" thread. :rolleyes:

These are your words, are they not? :confused:

That being said -- hybrids contribute just as much to the humane society population as purebreds do. This next bit comes from a study that was done by Purdue University of Veterinary Medicine:

The HSUS also says: "Before buying a dog, take a visit your local animal shelter. One of four shelter dogs is a purebred, and the rest are hybrids in their own right – mixes of two or more breeds. If you want a true "one-in-a-million" dog, you will find one at a shelter – and you will save hundreds to thousands of dollars and save a life." So you can get a "designer dog" at the shelter as well.

[LoveMyLabs]

I don't know what you are talking about. If you are referring to my using the word "hybrid" it's possibly because everyone else was using it as well. Call it what you will, a mix is a mix is a mix. That's all there is to it.
You can also find the other HSUS stats on the other thread you are speaking of. Maybe you just forgot to post the rest of the HSUS stats and such about purebreds vs mixes in shelters.

[LoveMyLabs]

I have just joined this site and even introduced myself and now wish I hadn't after reading your threads. :(
I own a Labradoodle and bought her because 1. I love labs but didn't want all the moulting. 2. The curly breeds ie. Poodles, Terriers ect. I didn't like. Sorry if I have offended anyone here.
I didn't realise until I read some of your opinions that I was joining a bigoted site. I LOVE LABRADOODLES and all other dogs and wouldn't dream of slating people for the dogs they own.

Jo
www.flickr.com/photos/miakuntakinty/

ps. I bred off Mia and had 6 beautiful Healthy pups which were practically given away to loving people.

You could have gotten a curly coated retriever and had the Lab look as well as a slightly curly coat (which I'm sure you got with your doodle). The site isn't bigoted towards the dogs but the people that make them and give them cutsie names and sell them for mega bucks. These dogs (all mixes) are not being bred for any purpose, conformation, temper, health or any other abilities. If they'd just call a spade a spade (a mix a mix) and give the dogs away instead of making them for profit, it wouldn't be quite as bad. Except for the one's that are mixing on purpose. An accident can be forgiven if you get the dogs fixed afterwards, but doing it on purpose is ridiculous.
So if you bred off of your "doodle mix" then you have done nothing but create more mixes.