What am I going to do!

[Lindsey]

Well since I last posted about 'rough play' things have got even worse! My poor little mini schnauzer (Ed) has now been diagnosed with depression!!!!!

The vet came to this conclusion after I took Ed to see him as he had stopped wanting to go for walks, wouldn't eat and was just generally lethargic. After explaining the situation at home (Ed really disliking Milo - my doberman) the vet recommended I move Milo out of the house for a week and see if it had any effect. So Milo went to stay at my mums for a week and all of a sudden Ed is back to his happy self, eating, walks - just back to being a puppy again (he's 7).

So Milo is back home now and Ed is depressed again! If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it.

So now what do I do???? It isn't an option for Milo to live at mums and she just couldn't cope with him full time and the thought of me having to try and re-home him just seems terrible.

As it is Ed has the run of the house and Milo has to stay downstairs and in the garden etc but all Ed does is lay upstairs looking miserable.

Very worried :confused:

[grizzle]

I don't know if I told you this in another thread but walking the two side by side as much as you can is the fastest way to bond two dogs. I have even bonded two dogs together that hated each other. IT WORKS almost every time.

[Lindsey]

I remember you saying that but I promise you that from the time Milo was old enough to go out for walks he has been walked side by side with Ed. As soon as Milo started getting larger and rougher that's when the problems started.

I have kept dogs all my life and have never encountered a problem like this before and am just at a loss at what to do for the best.

[grizzle]

I'm sorry you may have told me that. Giving advice over the net is very hard without seeing the pups in action.

[6dogmom]

It is a tough situation, but I think you need to build your little ones confidence around the big one. Make sure that every time they are together it is a positive experience. It seems that maybe everytime they were together before maybe you were nervous and corrected the big dog alot. Some times this can lead to a wrong association.
Today was my first day bringing my little baby and introducing her to the pack. My smallest dog weighs 39lbs and the biggest is over 100lbs. I just got this little 11.8 lb eight weeks old pup. The big guys remember puppy manners but I still have to work on the five month old pups. They have to be taught how to play with a pup smaller then them.
So today, I had tiny baby in the backyard with all eight of them. First I had to supervise her so she did not get to crazy, I used lots of distraction for the pups, we played on the stick pile and it was a very calm enviroment. Everyone chewed the sticks. When the little guys get to overly crazy with the baby I remove them from the yard. When they are calm I let them back out with baby. If they start to get crazy again I put them back inside. That way they don't get any bad vibes ( like from yelling or holding collars or chasing). That way they only associate that when they play rough with baby they will get removed.
You could try that with your guys, make sure to praise your little guy for every little effort he makes in building a relationship with the big one. Likewise praise the big one for playing gentle. If he doesn't remove him at once. Then bring him out again. It is lots of hard work and the biggest thing I need to emphasis is consistancy, if you are not consistant in the rules then you little guy will continue to get more depressed and the big guy will likely get more unruley or even aggresive.

[Lindsey]

The thing is that Ed is an extremely confident dog normally. He happily plays with my friends weimaraners and is very confident in the park with any other dog that is around. He isn't nervous around Milo he just really dislikes him. I don't know if its because my dog prior to Milo, a wonderful Shar-pei was his best friend, they were inseparable but sadly Wilbur got a very vicious form of mast cell cancer and had to be put to sleep.

Like I said, there was no problem with Milo and Ed for the first few months so he hasn't been picking up any bad vibes from me as they lived happily together. The problem is that Milo will not stop trying to rough house with him and inadvertently hurts him. I am constantly removing Milo as it is impossible to leave them together as Milo just will not stop - even after a 3 hour walk he comes home and still follows Ed round incessantly. He almost seems to have a dog obsession as he does it with my friends weimaraners but when they've had enough of him they put him in his place and that does seem to stop him but obviously because of the size difference when Ed tries to have a go back Milo just doesn't seem to notice and just carries on regardless. If I am in the room the problem is much less but obviously I can't always be in the room.

I've had my dog trainer round to observe the situation but he was little help as he thinks Milo is just like an irritating child at the moment that's just constantly nagging at Ed to play and he should grow out of it by the time he's 4 or 5! Great, he's only 18 months old!

[6dogmom]

It seems like a tough problem but you need to remember to be consistant. That would mean that if the dogs are together you need to be in the room, all the time. If you can't be supervising them then you need to separate them at those times. Even if it's five minutes to pee, don't leave them alone. The hardest part when it comes to training is consistancy. Every time Milo gets to rough you need to give him a two minute removal from the situation. It is hard but you have to make sure it's EVERY time. If you are consistant and want to fix the problem you have to make sure that every moment they are together you are working on this problem.
Also make sure you treat the dogs equal, if milo has to be in the basement then so should ed. So if you have to switch them every two hours then that's what you have to do.
If I were you I would make a plan, write it on a piece of paper so that everyone in the house knows exactly what to do. Then define the "rules" what is exceptable. and what you hope to accomplish in the end. You have to fiqure out exactly what types of behavior you expect from both dogs. Something like Week 1: milo will have two successful playtimes with ed for lasting two minutes. Ed will happily engage in a playtime activity without ed for five minutes. Week 2: Milo will have two successful playtimes with ed lasting five minutes. Ed will happily engage in a playtime activity without ed for ten minutes. ect......
Eventually you can put ed with milo and expect both things at the same time, ed will be happy and milo will be well mannered. It will take lots and lots of work.
This will take a long time to fix because it has built up but if you take it real slow and be consistant over time it will be fine.

[dobetaztic]

poor thing i would try a dap infuser it contains phereamones from a whelping bitch you can plug it in the room where they stay the most or get a couple for the rooms, it takes aprox 1-2 wekks for it to build up it is completely odourless and what happens is these phereamones help puppies to remain calm when just whelp but the same effect works on any dog i use for clients that have dogs with fear issues but the claming influence may calm the dobie down and cheer up your schnauzer, you can buy on line or get from the vet it also comes in spray for when out and about

[Lindsey]

Thanks for your replies guys.

Dobetaztic I'm going to have a look for the dap infusers now - sounds interesting.

Thanks again

[lemondrop]

Have you tried a dog behavioralist/trainer. You know, like the dog whisperer?

[sbeau66]

these two were introduced to each other aged approx 2 years old, rough play for about 2 weeks, they worked out stuff like who was strongest, fastest,smarter etc, they are best buddies now and love each other, i dunno why sometimes it works and sometimes some dogs won't click, and i was told it is harder to get bitches to get along, good luck,x