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Old 08-14-2009, 03:25 PM   #1
BetterDog4U
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Neka becomes Aggressive ...

Recently we have had two new dogs move into the neighborhood. Both are "intact" females.

As most of you know, my backyard is open to the west, and the 5 yards to my west are also all open. All of us (except one) have dogs and we get together at least once per day to let the dogs run and play together.

The problem comes when the new dogs come into "heat" ... If they are out running and Neka is also loose, a fight breaks out EVERYTIME. Neka is the one who starts it and she goes crazy. When the two new dogs are NOT in heat there is NO problem but they sometimes tend to keep there distance.

I have spoken to both owners individually and let them know what is going on. I told them that they need to keep there dogs on leash or confined in there yards where the dogs will both be safe when they are in heat.

One of them told me, "If your dog hurts my dog I'll sue you. My dog has the same right to run as yours, What makes your dog special. Why dont you keep yours at home?"

I tryed to explain that the problem is that her dog is loose and she is not out there with the dog. I also told her that it is not the other 5-7 dogs running together every day. And that its only during the time her dog is in heat.

Im going to be more careful, and I'll just have to keep a leash handy now. I'm also going to work with Neka to try to reduce her reaction to those two dogs. I have NO idea what to do yet. Im not sure if typical desencitization training will work, but thats were Im planning to start.

Any Suggestions, Ideas or Comments?
- Michael -



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Old 08-14-2009, 08:32 PM   #2
Shara
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The thing is, if your dog is out off your property, and it hurts another dog, you are going to be at fault...if their dog goes into your property and starts a fight or is in a fight with Neka, they would be at fault. Its all legalitites, and i would hate to hear someone being sued over an incident, that I feel is going to happen...

Are the dogs that go in heat in the 5 open-yarded houses? If they are in one of those, that would stink..if not, I would tell the owners that you have a pact with the other people to let un-troublesome dogs play. I would go as far as go to each persons house and have them sign a writen statement saying that everyones dog is alowed on their property and that they have witnessed agression issues with Neka and that you have confronted the owners of the dogs in heat, and they were not cooroperative.

I feel it is better to be on the safe side, even though it is Neka that is having the agression issues...I would get something in writing, and work on the issues after that has been done.

The other option is to have tie outs?

I would also try to introduce Neka on leash with the "in heat" dogs on leash and correct her when she cannot controll herself. I have had Tigger around dogs that are in heat, off leash at the club and he had to just ignore it...no questions asked.

It is harder though when someone is not being cooroperative and being agressive and threatening saying "im going to sue if your dog hurts mine" They are just as at fault as are you for not having a fence or a leash on the dogs...

I totally understand as well that you have a positive relationship with the other dogs and owners in those 5 houses and I am sure you want your dogs to have a good socializing experienece with their playmates...but I would rather see you be safe, not sorry...
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:05 PM   #3
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Are your dogs and the neighbor dogs running through their yard as well?

I don't agree with letting their intact girls run loose, but at the same time I don't think they should be prisoners in their own house whenever they're in heat. I know if I was told I couldn't use my yard when Kaylee was in heat because the neighbor dogs needed their playtime (in my yard, no less), I'd be pretty unhappy.

Any way you look at it, it's a less than ideal situation.
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Old 08-15-2009, 12:12 AM   #4
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Why would anyone want their female dog, intact and in heat, out with a whole neighborhood of dogs? Perhaps all of the males in the group are neutered? I don't know, as it's impossible to know all of the circumstances from one or even a dozen posts.

That being said, I have not one, but two points of view on this. With multiple dogs there are sometimes scuffles, and more often simple trash talking between 2 dogs, especially females. It happens here occasionally and over the years, I've found the BEST thing to do is look the other way and not interfere. I am not as adept at detecting rude doggy behavior as a dog is. One dog rushing another may not be the one actually causing the problem. If it's just noise and no bloodshed, I ignore it.

My other point of view is that it's my responsibility to prevent my dogs from causing harm to any person or their pet. If I had them off lead anywhere off of my own property and could not get an instant recall, no matter what, I'd have them back on lead fast. If they hurt someone or another animal, someone COULD sue me, and they could also quarantine my dog, or deem that any or all of my dogs were aggressive, or someone could decide to do my dogs harm, etc., etc. I'm not willing to go there.

Maybe you could move the party to just your yard and only invite doggies that get along well.

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Old 08-15-2009, 12:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shara View Post
Are the dogs that go in heat in the 5 open-yarded houses?

I would also try to introduce Neka on leash with the "in heat" dogs on leash and correct her when she cannot controll herself. I have had Tigger around dogs that are in heat, off leash at the club and he had to just ignore it...no questions asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzledobes View Post
Are your dogs and the neighbor dogs running through their yard as well?


I don't agree with letting their intact girls run loose, but at the same time I don't think they should be prisoners in their own house whenever they're in heat. I know if I was told I couldn't use my yard when Kaylee was in heat because the neighbor dogs needed their playtime (in my yard, no less), I'd be pretty unhappy.
Neka does NOT go in thier yard. They are the last house on the block so they are at the far West end. The dogs run in the 3 middle yards about 90% of the time and in my yard the other 10%.

This morning I had Neka's collar in my hand and I was holding it and making her lay on the ground next to me. After about 5 minutes she DID calm down, but as soon as the dog moved Neka was trying to get at her again.

The problem is that they just open the door and let thier dog run anywhere it wants to. If they would bring it out "on-leash" when it is in heat it would cure the problem, because i would do the same with Neka. And thats what I told them.

BTW, THEY have a tie-out in their yard but they never use it. I never asked them to keep it in the house, i just asked them to use a little common sence when the dog was in heat.
- Michael -



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Old 08-15-2009, 01:19 AM   #6
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Wow, doesn't sound like an ideal situation. I'll go wih my old standby - good fences make good neighbors... and it sounds like they need a good fence if they want to keep good neighbors. They do need to be more responsible with their intact girls - that's crazy to let them offleash in an non-secure area!

I can't say that I'm a fan of tie outs, if the dogs are tied out in the same general area where other dogs are allowed to run and play offleash. After all, the loose dogs won't skid to a stop at the neighbor's property line, and there's always a chance of the loose dogs coming onto the neighbor's yard. To me, that spells disaster - a tethered dog can feel more defensive and be more likely to start a scuffle, not to mention a huge risk for neck injuries.

Thankfully dogs don't go into heat very often (IMO, twice a year isn't too bad, compared us unlucky humans!) - perhaps things will improve by the time they go into heat again.
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:21 AM   #7
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Check out your county or state pet law. Ours here states that if you have a female in heat it needs to either be tied in a fenced yard or in a kennel run or on a leash. It cannot be left unattended in a yard, EVEN FENCED. When Dalyce is in heat we keep her on a leash.
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:46 AM   #8
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UPDATE:

I just spoke with my neighbor (the owner of Sarge, Zeb and Colter). He went down and talked to her and her BF after work tonight. He "asked" them NOT to just let the dog run loose when she is in heat unless one of them was with her.

He explained that while I was away today, Sarge and Zeb were out in their yard with his 14 yr old son. They were out there for about 1/2 hour when the female was let out to run. Sarge and Zeb (also in tact BTW) both went crazy and tried to mount her. Sarge and Zeb actually ended up in a fight over the female and his son almost got bit trying to break it up. He finally got Sarge put away and he then used a leash to get Zeb put away in his kennel.

I guess we'll see what happens next. Sarge's dad is a little "in your face" when stuff like this happens so I imagine is was not very "chilled" during the conversation. He did say that the boyfriend was very receptive and seamed to be in agreement.
- Michael -



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Old 08-15-2009, 02:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 6dogmom View Post
Check out your county or state pet law. Ours here states that if you have a female in heat it needs to either be tied in a fenced yard or in a kennel run or on a leash. It cannot be left unattended in a yard, EVEN FENCED. When Dalyce is in heat we keep her on a leash.
The local laws say that the dog must be on a leash if it is off of the owners property. The other thing I would have in my favor is that it is against the law to have a dog "at large". "At Large" is defined as off leash or out of confinement without the owner present and in control of the animal.

The section of the law that pertains to "in heat" is as follows:

23.10 CONFINEMENT OF FEMALE ANIMALS IN HEAT.

The owner of any female animal in heat shall confine said animal inside the house or buildings on the owner’s premises during the heat period. The owner may remove the animal in heat from his/her premises for purposes of defecating, urinating, breeding and/or appointments with the veterinarian providing the animal is on a leash, chain, or similar restraint not more than 6 feet in length and is under the control of the owner. (50-05)
- Michael -



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Old 08-15-2009, 02:24 AM   #10
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My other point of view is that it's my responsibility to prevent my dogs from causing harm to any person or their pet. If I had them off lead anywhere off of my own property and could not get an instant recall, no matter what, I'd have them back on lead fast. If they hurt someone or another animal, someone COULD sue me, and they could also quarantine my dog, or deem that any or all of my dogs were aggressive, or someone could decide to do my dogs harm, etc., etc. I'm not willing to go there.

Maybe you could move the party to just your yard and only invite doggies that get along well.
I feel that Im responsible for my dog's actions on or off of my property and thats why I now carry a leash in my pocket when we are in the back yard now. I'm also going to watch the area better so that I can get Neka and Patchs under control before anything happens. Im not willing to go there either!!!

As for the party, I guess we could move it to my house, but, it has been held in the middle yard (Sarge, Zeb & Colters) for 17+ years going all the way back to puppy Chip in 1992 because its the biggest and most open area. Its just kind of a "given" that it always takes place there.

I just want eveyone to get along and keep the area a fun and safe place for ppl and dogs.
- Michael -



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