Click here to Register

K9Mania.com - Forums By Dog Lovers for Dog Lovers > Canine Training > Behaving Badly » Shara Stay HELP
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-2010, 05:36 PM   #1
Shara
Been Around A While
 
Shara's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via MSN to Shara
Exclamation Shara Stay HELP

Bah I been working her stays for a month now, making it all positive. When I step off and say stay, I give her a treat, I throw treats at her durring the stay. She has stopped shaking nervously at home.

I go to the club last night, after 1 month off and working alone. Shara busts her stays left and right. Mind you the club is a familiar place to her now, and she just would not stay for ANYTHING.

I went out of sight, she stayed better with me out of sight. At home I can leave her for 10mins and she will stay in the house.

My trainer invited me to the club tonight to work on her, but I dont want to travel to the city AGAIN...to work on this, but Abiline is just next weekend and she is NOT solid on her stays. I just cannot crack her on this, I do NOT know what I am doing wrong.

Ive tried EVERYTHING, all the advice, Ive stuck with X method, only for her to break the stay. Then try another method, she breaks the stay.

My trainer has tried EVERYTHING too, from being rough with her, to giving her treats as she stays for me (to make the 'judge' seem good)

We have put moving objects infront of her, thrown balls, everything, she will stay. SHe will shake but she wil stay. But then go to a competition, she busts.

ANY clue what is going on with her, any suggestions we have not tried? I need help, I am at my wits end.

Last night was the last straw for me mentally as a trainer, I cannot keep doing this with her, its a rollercoaster ride mentally, When I work on her work work work we think we got it down, go test it out she busts.

I thought her stand for exam was an issue, this is no comparrison. I do not know what I am going to do.
~Meredith
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
Shara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 05:58 PM   #2
Furbilator
Been Around A While
 
Furbilator's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,675
First, dare I say take a chill pill. I know this is important to you but you are taking this WAYYYYYY too seriously. Your frustration may and probably is rubbing off on the dog and causing some of the mishaps. Other mishaps may be because the dog isn't having fun or isn't getting the pleasureable response from obeying as she once did. Take a step away from training for a while, have some fun with her and practise building or rebuilding the bond between you and her first before you go back to training. Perhaps she will never be the perfect 'stayer' or 'obeyer'. Accept that and be happy with what she can give you at any moment in time. Dogs live in the moment and sometimes that moment doesn't correspond with our plans. LOL

Furbs
All messages have been lab tested and approved!
Furbilator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 07:10 PM   #3
Shara
Been Around A While
 
Shara's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via MSN to Shara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbilator View Post
First, dare I say take a chill pill. I know this is important to you but you are taking this WAYYYYYY too seriously. Your frustration may and probably is rubbing off on the dog and causing some of the mishaps. Other mishaps may be because the dog isn't having fun or isn't getting the pleasureable response from obeying as she once did. Take a step away from training for a while, have some fun with her and practise building or rebuilding the bond between you and her first before you go back to training. Perhaps she will never be the perfect 'stayer' or 'obeyer'. Accept that and be happy with what she can give you at any moment in time. Dogs live in the moment and sometimes that moment doesn't correspond with our plans. LOL

Furbs
Furbs,
I am going to comp end of this month, I do need to get this soild. Shara is fine on everything else. We have a soild bond, infact people say she wants to come to me so bad thats why she whines on the stays and eventually breaks to come to me.

I am having fun with Shara, we are even doing directive jumps, retrieves over jumps, and go outs, all which are fun and I had a good time last night TILL we did stays and she kept busting.

I took a months break from the club and classes, and worked on stays. I go to the club last night and shes breaking stays left and right. Somehow she doesnt know what I am asking or shes having seperation anxiety attacks. I do not know which it is or how to fix it.

The fact is I was COMPLETELY confident in Shara last night on her stays, I was on the other side of the ring talking and stuff, hanging out. There was NO tention in me whatsoever. Then she broke the stay, I went over and corrected it, only for her to pop up again and again. We took a break, did some retrieves and jumps, did some stays afterwards, I had 5 people stay and help be distractions and still she broke.
~Meredith
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
Shara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 07:10 PM   #4
dobetaztic
Been Around A While
 
dobetaztic's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Doset. england
Posts: 2,845
Send a message via MSN to dobetaztic
well unless i am missing something which i could be since not been on here for so long, but i would say you not trained enough in different situations, if she will stay in house and at the club what about on a busy street, a park where there are strange dogs and children and noises, outside a school or a shopping centre if you not done the exercise in these places and mastered it then why would she do it in a strange field or room surrounded by dogs she dont know lots of noise and strange people. more variation in enviroments is needed to do such things. then you may see a change.

i would also not give rewards or treets unless the exercise has been successful you should be at the stage that you put in stay walk away come back and finish before a reward is done, if you reward periodically while being in a stay this could also increase the anticipation and increase her to move. also take some kalms you threating will increase her awareness and if you get more anxious because you think she will not perform the exercise then that is felt down the lead and makes dog more anxious.

take a deep breath go in do the exercise if she brakes it in training go back put here back in position and move again don not speek to here limit contact do not fuss or reward keep putting back till she stays if after 5 attemps she brakes go do some thing she can just egnore the incorrect behaviur pick lead up and do some thing easy and get the rewards going and excitement up once back on positive try again keep trying and braking from exercise till she does it, just no fuss or reward for incorrect behaviours,

on day of the compatition go in the ring breath deep to calm your self put your self in mind set if she does she does what the hell, put in position and leave when told if she brakes it nothing you can do but keep trying. at end of day its not the end of the world, i know been there and done it had a champion obediance dobe who one day would be rock solid the next would move like crazy it comes and just think its just experience for you both enjoy it.
if your house looks like its been hit by a tornado your owned by a dobermann RIP Lyric, Caito, Daimler, Autumn, Hope and Archie see you at Rainbow Bridge My heart is broken, all of you gone in one year, run free, play hard and wait for me.
dobetaztic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 07:31 PM   #5
Shara
Been Around A While
 
Shara's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via MSN to Shara
I somewhat understand what you are saying. But first I had to make the whole sitation positive with her, thats why I had to keep giving her treats throughout the exercise, so she would quit shaking and shivering (anxiety?)

We have done all of these exercises:

Putting strain on the leash when she is on the stay to make her 'work' at staying.

Putting her on top of a box.

Putting a bracket around her to stay in.

The 'judge' giving her treats throughout the stay. (we thought she was having anxiety towards the judges but shes not)

Throwing toys/distratctions.

Clapping and stomping (to recreate the anxiety she would have in a ring , she could care less)

People dancing around her (she could care less)

Purposly pulling her over on a sit or down, and then me go correct her.

Dogs on either side sitting, while shes on a down stay. Dogs on either side down while shes on a sit stay.

Shes been in training for 2 years, so we have tried all of these methods...I take her to petsmart/petco when I can in the city.

Like I told my trainer, its purely Russian Roulett with her, I dont know why she decides to stay sometimes sne doesnt. What I want/need is a solid stay...its a simple as 'come when called'....

We practice stays every night at the dinner table, she gets scraps, ultimate treat right! She does fine!

So I am at a loss of what exactly I should do.

We have also experimented with if I stare her down in the ring, or look around, or turn and not look at her at all. Sometimes she stays sometimes she doesnt.
~Meredith
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
Shara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 07:31 PM   #6
lucysnewmum
Been Around A While
 
lucysnewmum's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: bournemouth, england
Posts: 948
Send a message via MSN to lucysnewmum
no one is perfect!!

just had a thought Shara! chill out a bit and be proud of what she does achieve! No single dog in history has been 100% and if anyone begs to different ask any reliable trainer!! There is always going to be the dog that 'breaks' for whatever reason best known to themselves. I can understand that you want to do the best you can in the competition but maybe the stay isnt the dogs forte. Maybe she will excel at some other activity.....don't set your dog up for a fall....be confident in yourself but don't expect perfection! This only happens in the movies


ZACK
My loyal friend forever in sunshine

Gilly
lucysnewmum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 07:38 PM   #7
Shara
Been Around A While
 
Shara's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via MSN to Shara
I just need her to stay for 2 more shows, then we will move on to open where I have to actually leave the ring and go outta sight for several minutes...so I do need her to get this down She seems better when I am out of sight/out of mind.

I hate it I come here to post frustrations and am told I am expecting perfect or expecting too much or something, when she excells in other parts of the competition. The thing is it doesnt matter if she scores a 200 and then busts the stay...its all out the window. I NEED to get her to stay and I need some advice to get her that way. I have only a few days and I am running out of time.

Shes not a dumb dog and I am not expecting too much from her, she can do this and I do have confidence in her, why she has anxiety I wish I knew why.

Wish she would just bloomin stay.
~Meredith
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
Shara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:03 PM   #8
Furbilator
Been Around A While
 
Furbilator's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,675
As I read the first post I could feel your frustrations and hence I sensed that you were taking it too much to heart. Just do the best you can and let the chips fall where they may. Who knows, she may surprise you come show day and stay like her butt is glued down. You will just have to accept whatever performance she gives you and keep working at it if she fails.

Two paws forward some days and three paws backwards other days.

Good Luck,
Furbs
All messages have been lab tested and approved!
Furbilator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:51 PM   #9
Shara
Been Around A While
 
Shara's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via MSN to Shara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbilator View Post
As I read the first post I could feel your frustrations and hence I sensed that you were taking it too much to heart. Just do the best you can and let the chips fall where they may. Who knows, she may surprise you come show day and stay like her butt is glued down. You will just have to accept whatever performance she gives you and keep working at it if she fails.

Two paws forward some days and three paws backwards other days.

Good Luck,
Furbs

Oh Furbs,

I am very frustrated. As I think she has it down, only for her to just flip out and not stay. I am very proud of her, she has come a long way. I just want her to succeed and show everyone what a good team we are and how hard we try and how smart she is.

I am going back to the city tonight for another class to see if we can try things to get her to stay. And going to petsmart AND petco to practice before then...

I will let yall know what happens tonight...I really got to get this down!
~Meredith
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥
Shara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 12:42 AM   #10
Jr_K9_Expert
Been Around A While
 
Jr_K9_Expert's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 4,285
Send a message via AIM to Jr_K9_Expert
So you say she has perfect stays at home and stuff, even with the most distracting of distractions yet when she goes to the ring she breaks them?

Isn't the problem obvious? Its the people.

Just curious have you tried practicing the stays with COMPLETE strangers around? And how many at one time?

If you haven't, I suggest you start doing so, start with one and then work your way up to a good group. Best if you do it also in an area that that she's never gone with you to.

Also, is she REALLY REALLY food motivated? If not, I wouldn't concentrate so much on giving her food treats while she stays. Put yourself in her shoes (if she had any ), when you are away and she is sitting all by herself, do you think that the biggest reinforcer is a piece of food? I would think not. The biggest reinforcer is coming to you. Have her stay for a while, praise her verbally, and then call her to you quickly (and not till now give her a treat). What you want to get her to understand is that she will eventually get to come to you, but first she must do what you ask. If she breaks her stay the best discourager you can use is to ignore her (not corrections).

Anywho, maybe you already knew this but I guess it was worth mentioning *shrugs*

Best of wishes! I'm sure she'll pull through!!
-Steven



My dog article site - K9Domain
My dog blog - Dog Notes
Jr_K9_Expert is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

K9Mania.com - Forums By Dog Lovers for Dog Lovers > Canine Training > Behaving Badly


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT. The time now is 07:12 AM.